Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Yeah, the two of those are equatable.
It was Georgiou who wanted to pilot a shuttle filled with warheads over to T'Kuvma's ship to try to take him out. Saru pointed out that was a suicide mission. She was fine with that. If they had gone with that plan, she would have died anyway. No ifs, no buts. Michael argued to be the one to go on the suicide mission instead. Everything she did was intended to prevent her Captain's death.
When they see the bodies being recovered it's Georgiou who proposes a change in plan. To booby trap a body. They take out the ship's neck with a crippling explosion.
Then we see them getting ready to beam onto the ship to try to capture T'Kuvma. The captain has decided to go with the capture not kill plan.
Michael did what she could to prevent her mentor needlessly sacrificing herself. Her plan had a better chance of success, especially after the ship was hit hard by the explosion and the Klingon's were distracted. It's not her fault Georgiou lost a close-quarters combat with a Klingon. That's on Philippa.
When they see the bodies being recovered it's Georgiou who proposes a change in plan. To booby trap a body. They take out the ship's neck with a crippling explosion.
Then we see them getting ready to beam onto the ship to try to capture T'Kuvma. The captain has decided to go with the capture not kill plan.
Michael did what she could to prevent her mentor needlessly sacrificing herself. Her plan had a better chance of success, especially after the ship was hit hard by the explosion and the Klingon's were distracted. It's not her fault Georgiou lost a close-quarters combat with a Klingon. That's on Philippa.
I'd have to rewatch, but is there a reason Georgiou let Burnham go with her to the Klingon ship instead of just confining her to a locked room?
Probably not.
I think only a few people would claim Burnham is responsible for Geogiou's death in a planned-a-deadly-and-poorly-thought-out mission. I think most people's charge (including Burnham and Saru's) is that she got Georgiou killed "as her first officer". A first officer's duties include protecting the captain from: bad decisions, mistakes, disharmony with the crew, and - certainly -death on away missions. Starfleet wouldn't and didn't charge Burnham with that, but everyone in the fleet knows she didn't protect her captain, and thus "got her killed".
I disagree. Michael already tried to nerve pinch her once. What more could she have done, mutiny again? Philippa was determined to try to kill T'Kuvma and disable his ship. Her original decision was to blow herself up. Even Saru knows this, but he's avoided thinking too deeply on it.
It's almost as if people want her to be insubordinate to her Captain's wishes again, while condemning her for her earlier actions which were to try to save her but insubordinate.
It's almost as if people want her to be insubordinate to her Captain's wishes again, while condemning her for her earlier actions which were to try to save her but insubordinate.
But in both the UN and EU/NATO all countries are allowed to keep their military/defensive sovereignty - if they should so choose - and act under a supervisory, collective operational control.
This is the "reality" of how the Federation probably works - STO even suggests as such with Vulcan, Andor and Tellar Prime sill keeping their own ships/navies and Bajor still has its militia, etc. But that's not how it's depicted on screen.
All the onscreen evidence suggests all governments must relinquish their sovereignty to the Federation (It's not even clear if Earth has its own government) and their solders must become part of Starfleet. That's imperialism. And what makes it so nefarious is it's done under the guise of puppies/rainbows/unicorns/better-future/Gene's vision.
And it's too bad we never got to see the ugly side of this. DS8 had the perfect opportunity. Imagine the Jemmies barreling through the wormhole in a massive force that splits up and takes off towards the founding planets. Starfleet deices to gather the bulk of its force outside Sol, because its where the Federation and Starfleet is headquartered. But imagine being one of survivors of what would inevitably be a slaughter on the other three planets seeing the Human-heavy force whose higher ranks are mostly human defending the Human planet.
Huh?
Not even when she killed T'Kumva rather than capturing him?
...Klingons taking prisoners contradicts later Trek but I think that bird left the coop anyway and is best ignored
...
This was always inconsistent.
The Klingons held Kirk and Spock as captives in "Errand of Mercy."
Fifteen years later, in TWOK, Kirk claims that "the Klingons don't take prisoners."
Then in the very next movie, Kruge vaporizes his gunner for accidentally destroying the Grissom because "I wanted prisoners!
"I think Kirk's line in TWOK may have been a bit of humor, not a totally factual statement.
Kor
Sorry I didn't wade through all 45+ pages, only about the first 14-15.
Very good episode. I gave an 8. Missed the mirror thing the first time around. Looks like Stamets is out time somehow.
Liked that we saw Trek ethics bounce back. Tardigrade freed. Saw some interesting developments with Crew relationships. Saru & Burnham. Burnham & the doc. Stamets & Burnham. Burnham & doc.
No issue with fucking cool. Or shit. I could do without it, though. It was kind of, look at us, we can cuss.
On to Voq/Ash. I like the theory. Ammo & stuff against.
Con first. He did zilch to move her out of the way of the shot. He was on the ground. Second, if that was her plan, she was willing to die for it, as she could have stayed put but instead ran out into danger & lucked out to survive. Why does she say you can't leave & start a fight? Just let him go if that is the plan. If that is Voq, he seems legit upset with her, he pulled no punches. Plus why offer to stay behind?
Pro. If that is Voq, it explains why they were together. And her line about going through so much together, if not the fight, her almost getting killed unnecessarily & he seemingly upset with her.
My take is that it is Voq. He is legitimately upset with her since she made him human. Took away his Klingon. Ironic for him. It has some holes with the way it played out but I am still on board.
Very good episode. I gave an 8. Missed the mirror thing the first time around. Looks like Stamets is out time somehow.
Liked that we saw Trek ethics bounce back. Tardigrade freed. Saw some interesting developments with Crew relationships. Saru & Burnham. Burnham & the doc. Stamets & Burnham. Burnham & doc.
No issue with fucking cool. Or shit. I could do without it, though. It was kind of, look at us, we can cuss.
On to Voq/Ash. I like the theory. Ammo & stuff against.
Con first. He did zilch to move her out of the way of the shot. He was on the ground. Second, if that was her plan, she was willing to die for it, as she could have stayed put but instead ran out into danger & lucked out to survive. Why does she say you can't leave & start a fight? Just let him go if that is the plan. If that is Voq, he seems legit upset with her, he pulled no punches. Plus why offer to stay behind?
Pro. If that is Voq, it explains why they were together. And her line about going through so much together, if not the fight, her almost getting killed unnecessarily & he seemingly upset with her.
My take is that it is Voq. He is legitimately upset with her since she made him human. Took away his Klingon. Ironic for him. It has some holes with the way it played out but I am still on board.
This was always inconsistent.
The Klingons held Kirk and Spock as captives in "Errand of Mercy."
Fifteen years later, in TWOK, Kirk claims that "the Klingons don't take prisoners."
Then in the very next movie, Kruge vaporizes his gunner for accidentally destroying the Grissom because "I wanted prisoners!
I think Kirk's line in TWOK may have been a bit of humor, not a totally factual statement.
Kor
Not to mention that Rura Penthe is a Klingon prison. LOL
Well, that's part of the judicial system; condemned criminals get sentenced to go to Rura Penthe. That's different from taking prisoners in battle and sending them there. Unless we count the deleted stuff from ST09.
Kor
And one of our absolute favourite small universe references.
44 pages behind again.
Another cracking episode 8/10 for me.
Love the Disco T-Shirts, has anyone else posited that Stammets opened himself up to the interconnected mycelium doodads and has linked himself with his Mirror Universe counterpart or possibly multiple alternates of himself?
I won't be shocked if that's what causes the link to the mirror universe.
Can't wait for next week, I hope Stuart survives.
Edit: Please add Fucking Cool as an option to the next poll.
Another cracking episode 8/10 for me.
Love the Disco T-Shirts, has anyone else posited that Stammets opened himself up to the interconnected mycelium doodads and has linked himself with his Mirror Universe counterpart or possibly multiple alternates of himself?
I won't be shocked if that's what causes the link to the mirror universe.
Can't wait for next week, I hope Stuart survives.
Edit: Please add Fucking Cool as an option to the next poll.
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Upon further reflection, I'm less enamoured by the list of Starfleet's Most Decorated American Straight White Men Plus The Token Asian Lady than I originally was. It hit it my Trek continuity-porn funny bone in the right spot, but on reflection...
But seriously folks, how did Erica Hernandez not make the cut? Far more competent than Jonathan 'Mah Pop's Engine' Archer and more, erm, 'stable' than Matt Decker.
But seriously folks, how did Erica Hernandez not make the cut? Far more competent than Jonathan 'Mah Pop's Engine' Archer and more, erm, 'stable' than Matt Decker.
Well, her career was cut short when she and the Columbia went missing during the war with the Romulans... at least, that's what happened in the novels, which I realize aren't canon, but it's the best explanation I've got.
Georgiou's career was also cut short by being killed and being pushed through a Klingon's bowel, but she still made the cut
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