Hologram Clothing question

[Capt Mars]

I'm new to these forums. This is my first topic. I tried searching to see if this was brought up but i couldn't find anything.

Anyways my wife and I are watching Voyager on Netflix (her first time watching Voyager...i saw it over 10 years ago...so its nice to re watch it again. Bring back memories)

But every time i see someone in the hologram room...especially when they leave the hologram room i'm always amazed to see they are still wearing the costume from the program they were in (even Picard in Generations they came on the bridge with old ship uniforms)

Instead of having to 'make' these outfits so they could go have fun in the holo room would it not make more sense to have an individual wear an outfit that is like what these motion capture actors wear on movies (like the actors that play Apes in the Apes movies) and whatever program you run the hologram room loads that outfit over your motion capture suit?
I know they weren't doing motion capture when TNG came out but the idea doesn't seem far fetch that you just wear some random plain outfit and the hologram room loads a costume over what you are wearing.

Side thought. Ive read in the past that the reason Voyager crew didn't update their outfits to the gray shoulders that the Federation moved to was because it does to much resource to replicate clothing for the whole crew, but if thats the case why would they be ok with crew replicating costumes for their hologram adventures? Tom Paris off the top of my head had his garage clothing, his captain plasma (was that the name) uniform, his old village uniform, etc...

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Timo]

We have never heard of the Federation trying to conserve resources outside Voyager. To the contrary, one of the points of holoentertainment might be to remind oneself that one is in possession of infinite resources. And since holostuff is so non-permanent, the feeling of possession might need to be reinforced by storing something permanent in one's closet...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The_Baroness]

Then again, in First Contact Picard programmed the holodeck to project clothes onto him a Lily when they hid from the Borg in the Dixon Hill program.

"Something in satin..."

So yes, it's clearly something that the holodeck is capable of doing.

 

[Capt Mars]

Then again, in First Contact Picard programmed the holodeck to project clothes onto him a Lily when they hid from the Borg in the Dixon Hill program.

"Something in satin..."

So yes, it's clearly something that the holodeck is capable of doing.

Your right...didn't think of that. So they have done that in the movies.. Now First Contact was after Generations,the enterprise was destroyed...the enterprise in First contact is new. So i wonder if from new ships and beyond the First Contact Enterprise model if they start incorporating hologram clothing.

Was there ever a moment in TNG, Voyager and Deep Space 9 (Before they started wearing the grey shoulder new uniforms) where they showed the hologram load clothing?

 

[Kor]

Certain items in the holodeck are clearly replicated instead of holo-projected, such as food and drink.

So it must be the same with clothing. In 1979, TMP showed that even in the 23rd century, it was possible to materialize synthesized clothing directly onto a body.

Since people of the future seem to have retained our primitive cultural notions of modesty for the most part, it would be embarrassing if you had to leave the holodeck in an emergency situation but then have your clothes vanish the instant you exited.

Kor

 

[Capt Mars]

Certain items in the holodeck are clearly replicated instead of holo-projected, such as food and drink.

So it must be the same with clothing. In 1979, TMP showed that even in the 23rd century, it was possible to materialize synthesized clothing directly onto a body.

Since people of the future seem to have retained our primitive cultural notions of modesty for the most part, it would be embarrassing if you had to leave the holodeck in an emergency situation but then have your clothes vanish the instant you exited.

Kor

They wouldn't go in naked. I'm thinking they'd wear some standard motion capture outfit like they do in the movies today, but even better looking since we talking about 400 years in the future. Heck maybe they wouldn't even need to wear any motion capture outfit...maybe they could just walk in with their star fleet uniform and the holodeck can detect and load the clothing over that. Even our cell phones have apps that put silly faces over our faces without having to wear anything special or put all those small dots on our faces like they do in the movies of motion capture. I'd think 400years from now computers wont need motion capture technology...they'd be so good they'd easily track our normal motions.

 

[Tenacity]

I just don't think Lily was wearing her prior clothing under that evening gown, to achieve that look she wasn't her "street clothes."

 

[Timo]

But the holodeck is all about false looks. It could no doubt have made Lily look stark naked, and with the body of Halle Berry to boot, without removing any of her actual clothing.

I don't really think we have any reason to think TMP showed the materializing of uniforms on people. I mean, DSC now shows that yes, materializing is a thing they do. But it doesn't look safe. And the TMP scene does not hinge on the heroes doing anything at all - there's a superbeing involved who could and would be responsible for this sort of thing.

I mean, if we're to think the clothing was materialized on Ilia by her shower stall machinery, then we're to think either she or Kirk chose for her to wear that specific item of clothing. I don't see either of them choosing so!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kor]

But the holodeck is all about false looks. It could no doubt have made Lily look stark naked, and with the body of Halle Berry to boot, without removing any of her actual clothing.
...

The holodeck made B'Elanna look pregnant when she actually wasn't, in VOY. (I can't remember of Roxann Biggs-Dawson was at that point).

Kor

 

[Tenacity]

I believe she was.

 

[Mojochi]

The idea of the holodeck is to immerse yourself in the reality. I'd think a projected costume/outfit would be less immersive, than designing/fashioning & replicating the fitted outfit you want, & maybe even want to reuse. I consider it a further application of the game experience

Lord knows, if I had inexhaustible replication resources, AND a play room to create any environment I wanted, I'd almost certainly craft my own outfits to keep, rather than just have them project on the spot. I'd probably craft my own props too, like Data's Holmes's violin, or Picard's saddle. There's a lot to be said for personalization & ownership

 

[FormerLurker]

I mean, if we're to think the clothing was materialized on Ilia by her shower stall machinery, then we're to think either she or Kirk chose for her to wear that specific item of clothing. I don't see either of them choosing so!

Except that's exactly what Kirk is doing when he hits the programming buttons for the shower. It isn't as obvious in the film, because there's no dialog to explain it, but the novelization is very explicit about it. Kirk enters, sees a female form in the shower, opens the door, sees the naked Ilia probe, and shuts the door to have the shower materialize a bathrobe on her. We the audience know he shuts the door to maintain the G rating for the film, but the in-universe explanation is something along the lines of "the door must be shut for the bathrobe materialization program to operate".

 

[F. King Daniel]

Riker's NX-01 uniform was holographic in ENT: "These Are the Voyages" so sometimes the outfits are pretend and sometimes the dress to go in.

I guess whichever the writers think is cooler at the time.

 

[The Wormhole]

IIRC, First Contact was the first time we saw the holodeck generate costumes for the users and was intentionally meant to represent how advanced the Enterprise E's holodecks were. Then Berman and Braga forgot this in TATV and made it a feature for the Enterprise D's holodeck too.

 

[Timo]

I guess having the E-E holodecks be better than the E-D ones is allowable. But it's certainly not required.

Except that's exactly what Kirk is doing when he hits the programming buttons for the shower. It isn't as obvious in the film, because there's no dialog to explain it, but the novelization is very explicit about it.

Then the novelization is in error. After all,

"Kirk enters, sees a female form in the shower, opens the door, sees the naked Ilia probe, and shuts the door to have the shower materialize a bathrobe on her."

does not describe the Jim Kirk we know! Either he would be his TOS chaste self and materialize something less explicit, or then he would be his fanlore randy self and not materialize anything.

Closing the door and twiddling with buttons is understandable when there's an alien intruder in the premises: Kirk's trying to lock the beast in and stop it from breaking out. He looks suitably distressed doing so, too. And he fails.

Mind you, he's doing so with controls next to the door to the cabin. It would be utterly insane to have controls for materializing clothing on showerers at that location!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

IIRC, First Contact was the first time we saw the holodeck generate costumes for the users and was intentionally meant to represent how advanced the Enterprise E's holodecks were. Then Berman and Braga forgot this in TATV and made it a feature for the Enterprise D's holodeck too.

Par for the course in Trek. Now the DISCO™ guys have most of TNG's technology, and stuff they probably never thought of.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I'm new to these forums. This is my first topic. I tried searching to see if this was brought up but i couldn't find anything.

Anyways my wife and I are watching Voyager on Netflix (her first time watching Voyager...i saw it over 10 years ago...so its nice to re watch it again. Bring back memories)

But every time i see someone in the hologram room...especially when they leave the hologram room i'm always amazed to see they are still wearing the costume from the program they were in (even Picard in Generations they came on the bridge with old ship uniforms)

Instead of having to 'make' these outfits so they could go have fun in the holo room would it not make more sense to have an individual wear an outfit that is like what these motion capture actors wear on movies (like the actors that play Apes in the Apes movies) and whatever program you run the hologram room loads that outfit over your motion capture suit?
I know they weren't doing motion capture when TNG came out but the idea doesn't seem far fetch that you just wear some random plain outfit and the hologram room loads a costume over what you are wearing.

Side thought. Ive read in the past that the reason Voyager crew didn't update their outfits to the gray shoulders that the Federation moved to was because it does to much resource to replicate clothing for the whole crew, but if thats the case why would they be ok with crew replicating costumes for their hologram adventures? Tom Paris off the top of my head had his garage clothing, his captain plasma (was that the name) uniform, his old village uniform, etc...

Any thoughts on this?

More than half the fun is getting to wear the outfit.

 

[Jedman67]

IIRC, First Contact was the first time we saw the holodeck generate costumes for the users and was intentionally meant to represent how advanced the Enterprise E's holodecks were. Then Berman and Braga forgot this in TATV and made it a feature for the Enterprise D's holodeck too.

Also FC had a bigger VFX budget than GEN or any of the TV episodes.

 

[Timo]

It's not as if holo-clothes would be particularly budget-intensive, though. The trick of removing a character and substituting something else such as another character is pretty much what the earliest transporter VFX already did, and certainly a common effect overall from the get-go. Here one just substitutes the same character, in new clothes. Blimmm!

What would be a bit more costly is gradually "growing" a new gown on Picard, say. But ST:FC doesn't do that. It goes Blimmm!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gary7]

Yeah, clothing for human participants would be replicated. Because if you had to leave the holodeck quickly, guess what? You'd be naked.