Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"

[Long Syntax]

Right. Most people seem to think that him being evil is cool. So this show will work for them.

I actually don't see him as evil. I see him as operating in a Machiavellian way in a time of war. He skirts the issue of evil, but not directly evil IMHO.

My personal thoughts on Discovery on the whole are still up in the air though. Lorca as a character, or any other character alone, doesn't make the whole series.

 

[Rahul]

I'm a little bit worried about what kind of plots they want to tell in the second season. So far, EVERY plot-of-the-week was heavily motivated by the war with the klingons: -save Lorca from the klingons, -save the dilithium mine from the klingons, -save the Glenn's spore drive from the klingons, and -meet and greet with the klingons in the pilot.

What are they going to do once the war with the klingons is over? I fear the writer's not coming up with good motivations for stories once there isn't an obvious enemy that needs to be defeated every week anymore. We'll see. Hope they don't introduce just another space war agains different evil aliens then...

 

[XCV330]

Well, in my book leaving people to a fate you believe to be 'worse than death' merely out of spite is clearly evil. It doesn't matter if the person left behind was evil too; it is very easy to show compassion to those who deserve it, a true test of character is to show it to those who don't.

Like marooning the last living example of a sentient species (Augments) on an undeveloped planet and never bothering to check their progress (or delegating anyone else to, either). Just saying, its subjective. I get what you mean, though.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I think there is WAY too much violence in this series.

While there has always been a certain level of violence in Trek, the portrayal of it in this show is becoming jarring and too graphic for my tastes. I understand that the viewing public's tolerance of violence and gore has become more permissive over the years. But that doesn't make it any classier or even necessary to telling a good story. My imagination is just fine. I don't need to see the bootheel slam into someone's head or the aftermath. Cut away, foley in the appropriate sound effects, and show me the reaction of those in the room. That tells me all I need to know.

 

[MarsWeeps]

I'm sorta seeing Tyler pushing her out of the way.

I watched this scene 5 times and he does nothing of the sort. Not even close. I don't understand how anyone got that idea.

Also, for some reason, Lorca deliberately let her live. He vaporized all the other Klingons and then fired a shot that ricocheted and hit her. That wasn't an accident.

 

[mswood]

He says in the age of five Michael Bay Transformers movies and a failing box office for a masterful Blade Runner movie.

You realize that the new Blade Runner film will actually have a higher gross in both the US and World wide adjusted for inflation then the original? That's actually pretty rare for a sequel or reboot to do, especially over time.

The real issue is why they had such a huge budget for a sequel to a film that's adjusted for inflation gross was only 85 or so million. Heck the Final Frontier adjusted gross is nearly a 120 million. There was really no strong business reason to spend 150 million on the film.
, and to expect it to breakout.

 

[Romulan_spy]

you remember deep space nine? war, torture, battles, death, etc.

DS9 also did beautiful Trek allegories like Far Beyond the Stars. The show was never defined by just war and battles.

 

[cultcross]

What I don't understand is why he would leave his ship before self-destructing it.

I would put money on a flashback answering that question at some point. Maybe whatever he did destroyed the ship but preserved him.

Well, in my book leaving people to a fate you believe to be 'worse than death' merely out of spite is clearly evil. It doesn't matter if the person left behind was evil too; it is very easy to show compassion to those who deserve it, a true test of character is to show it to those who don't.

Except he didn't. He'd already established Mudd was spying for the Klingons, and didn't have a single bruise on him from his allegedly significant capture. That's not a 'fate worse than death'. It's not the same scenario as what was/he believed was going to happen to his crew.

Out of interest, stuff Sisko got up to (using weapons of mass destruction, for example, or having a hand in the assasination of a senator) was far worse, do you consider him 'clearly evil'? What about Picard for shooting his crewman who was being assimilated? Same logic as Lorca, a fate worse than death. What about Janeway for leaving the Equinox crewmember to be killed by the alien bug things and having to be saved by Chakotay? That was far worse as she knew exactly what the resulting fate would be.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Discovery shuttle pilots = The new redshirts!

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I'm a little bit worried about what kind of plots they want to tell in the second season. So far, EVERY plot-of-the-week was heavily motivated by the war with the klingons: -safe Lorca from the klingons, -safe the dilithium mine from the klingons, -safe the Glenn's spore drive from the klingons, and -meet and greet with the klingons in the pilot.

The showrunners said from the start Discovery is a fully serialised show. Each episode builds on the previous one like the chapters in a book. Your criticism is akin to reading "The Lord of the Rings" then complaining about Frodo and the One Ring being mentioned in every chapter. It's not wrong, it's simply a different way of telling a Trek story. They may yet toss in a standalone episode for fun. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I'm a little bit worried about what kind of plots they want to tell in the second season. So far, EVERY plot-of-the-week was heavily motivated by the war with the klingons: -safe Lorca from the klingons, -safe the dilithium mine from the klingons, -safe the Glenn's spore drive from the klingons, and -meet and greet with the klingons in the pilot.

IIRC, in one of the AfterTrek's, the second one, I think, one of the head producers mentioned something to the effect that the Klingon arc will only last a season and that the whole show will not be permeated by Klingons.

What are they going to do once the war with the klingons is over? I fear the writer's not coming up with good motivations for stories once there isn't an obvious enemy that needs to be defeated every week anymore. We'll see. Hope they don't introduce just another space war agains different evil aliens then...

Don't know. I'm sure they'll figure something out. That's what writers do.

 

[Beckler]

Since apparently this forum is moderated by heavy-handed trekkies who closed my thread, I'll restate here. The whole tardigrade idea was incredibly stupid and convoluted and I'm glad to see it ending in this episode, hopefully. It's trash and one that will, as many good ideas as there are in star trek, go down as yet another really idiotic one.

 

[137th Gebirg]

You'll do well here.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Since apparently this forum is moderated by heavy-handed trekkies who closed my thread...

Jackbooted thugs!

Sorry. Your thread was redundant. If we let every stray thought that's already covered have its own thread... there'd ummm, be a lot of threads.

 

[Beckler]

You'll do well here.

Yes that's my main goal in life - to do well on an online trekkie group. So why post here? The miniscule chance someone from the show reads this and decides to look back on all the terrible star trek episodes out there and try to learn what not to do. Am I delusional? Yes. At least I realize it tho.

 

[Gonzo]

IIRC, in one of the AfterTrek's, the second one, I think, one of the head producers mentioned something to the effect that the Klingon arc will only last a season and that the whole show will not be permeated by Klingons.
Don't know. I'm sure they'll figure something out. That's what writers do.

I would expect to meet the Romulans at some point and maybe even the Cardassians or Ferengi.

 

[Kor]

Archer... one of the most decorated Starfleet captains ever?

It must have happened well after the events of ENT!

Kor

 

[Longinus]

Except he didn't. He'd already established Mudd was spying for the Klingons, and didn't have a single bruise on him from his allegedly significant capture. That's not a 'fate worse than death'. It's not the same scenario as what was/he believed was going to happen to his crew.

Spying for Klingons, possibly under a threat of torture!

Out of interest, stuff Sisko got up to (using weapons of mass destruction, for example, or having a hand in the assasination of a senator) was far worse, do you consider him 'clearly evil'?

Yes.

What about Picard for shooting his crewman who was being assimilated? Same logic as Lorca, a fate worse than death.

It was pretty damn questionable for sure. But it was in a combat situation and besides it was pretty much the point of the film that Picard was in the wrong.

What about Janeway for leaving the Equinox crewmember to be killed by the alien bug things and having to be saved by Chakotay? That was far worse as she knew exactly what the resulting fate would be.

I don't really remember that.

 

[cultcross]

By your standards, at least half the main Starfleet captains we've seen have been irredeemably evil. Possibly all of them, although Archer may scrape under the bar through sheer boringness. That's fine if that's your view, but it doesn't make Discovery stand out particularly.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Archer... one of the most decorated Starfleet captains ever?

It must have happened well after the events of ENT!

Kor

Our day has the Peter Principle, Starfleet has the Archer Principle.