Spoilers 1st openly gay character.
- Thread starter steam235
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Eh,
In my opinion the point isn't to treat the gay or straight character any different. a relationship or lack thereof should simply be purposeful to advance to story, and germane to the plot. Not to "showcase the gay guy"
One of the best things about having a black woman serve on the bridge was, in the future, no one thought anything about a black woman serving on the bridge, because it wasn't a thing.
In my opinion the point isn't to treat the gay or straight character any different. a relationship or lack thereof should simply be purposeful to advance to story, and germane to the plot. Not to "showcase the gay guy"
One of the best things about having a black woman serve on the bridge was, in the future, no one thought anything about a black woman serving on the bridge, because it wasn't a thing.
I think that guy was just a friend. Based on interviews his partner is in medical and the series will have some focus on them balancing their relationship and careers.
Agreed. Nobody bats an eye on the Mercer-Graysons, for example.
Might just be me but I had taken Sulu as being gay long before Beyond, before I was aware George Takei was gay either. Whether it was something deliberately infused into his performance kept unstated, a reflection of the actor's own personality or simply a coincidence is hard to say
When Beyond "confirmed" it I simply took it as a natural progression in an era where portraying homosexuality was no longer taboo.
As for a relationship on screen? I'll apply the same criteria I do to heterosexual relationships. If it's done well and adds something to the show (a la OBrien and Keiko) great, if not (Chakotay and Seven) then
When Beyond "confirmed" it I simply took it as a natural progression in an era where portraying homosexuality was no longer taboo.
As for a relationship on screen? I'll apply the same criteria I do to heterosexual relationships. If it's done well and adds something to the show (a la OBrien and Keiko) great, if not (Chakotay and Seven) then
I don't think many people want their to be "no" focus on it, of course there are always some.
I think many just don't want forced focus for no reason other than "to" focus on it.
I think many just don't want forced focus for no reason other than "to" focus on it.
Might just be me but I had taken Sulu as being gay long before Beyond, before I was aware George Takei was gay either. Whether it was something deliberately infused into his performance kept unstated, a reflection of the actor's own personality or simply a coincidence is hard to say
When Beyond "confirmed" it I simply took it as a natural progression in an era where portraying homosexuality was no longer taboo.
As for a relationship on screen? I'll apply the same criteria I do to heterosexual relationships. If it's done well and adds something to the show (a la OBrien and Keiko) great, if not (Chakotay and Seven) then
Not only did Takai believe Sulu was straight he wasn't enthused with him suddenly written as gay.
That just generates a problem where no one in the LGBTQ community can win from the start. The minute we're shown existing and being happy in a relationship, half the fucking planet cries foul and it either gets cut, censored, bitched about endlessly or series hate starts flying.
It's a double standard and a fucking depressing one.
There is a double standard, sure, but it isn't so dominated by Trek fans as to be a problem.
The "Sulu" thing was obviously forced and not germane to the story at all, so, there is the "other" side of the problem. Most people want a good story. If that involves discussing one of the main characters relationships then it should be there. Considering he is a main character I have no doubt it will be there, as romances are usually important.
It should be in there naturally. And I think it will.
The "Sulu" thing was obviously forced and not germane to the story at all, so, there is the "other" side of the problem. Most people want a good story. If that involves discussing one of the main characters relationships then it should be there. Considering he is a main character I have no doubt it will be there, as romances are usually important.
It should be in there naturally. And I think it will.
But that's just bullshit. Forced cis/het romance is the basis of a mind numbingly large amount of episodes and movies, sometimes lterally forced (watch a recent video on Harrison Ford's predatory movie sexuality on youtube) that you can't escape it in nearly all media.
It's right there all the time, taking up enormous amounts of screentime. If it's a cis/het couple, it can consume all the air time it wants. And after 80-90 years of TV and 100+ years of cinema, unless it crosses some line (age, consent etc) people literally do not care at all.
A gay couple on the fucking phone where one says anything close to "I love you" and the entire movie can be banned across a portion of the globe. So don't use the "focus" crap, *anything* at all will result in this attitude. Even a smile or hug for christ sake.
They edited Sulu's arm around his partner by a forced perspective edit of the scene because of backlash, that's not focus, that's 3 fucking seconds of a hug.
It's right there all the time, taking up enormous amounts of screentime. If it's a cis/het couple, it can consume all the air time it wants. And after 80-90 years of TV and 100+ years of cinema, unless it crosses some line (age, consent etc) people literally do not care at all.
A gay couple on the fucking phone where one says anything close to "I love you" and the entire movie can be banned across a portion of the globe. So don't use the "focus" crap, *anything* at all will result in this attitude. Even a smile or hug for christ sake.
They edited Sulu's arm around his partner by a forced perspective edit of the scene because of backlash, that's not focus, that's 3 fucking seconds of a hug.
That was not his boyfriend. That was his work partner, we know his Boyfriend works in medial
Oh, I think it's equally as stupid. Nothing bugs me more than romance forced into someplace where it really doesn't belong, or is albeity not at all clever.
My problem with Sulu has nothing to do with discomfort over homosexuality, my issue is how forced it is, it's making a statement for the sake of it, not for the sake of good writing.
Simon Pegg had kind of a pathetic explanation,
"We could have introduced a new gay character, but he or she would have been primarily defined by their sexuality, seen as the ‘gay character’, rather than simply for who they are, and isn’t that tokenism?”"
Which, really, is only true if you're a bad writer writing a bad story, because it's painfully obvious that they used Takai, and the character, as tokenism.
So far there isn't anything "token" about Discovery's "gay" character. And I think a lot of people, especially those with a socially open mind, fear that making him into a token would ruin the point.
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How was it forced? Sulu's husband and daughter were stationed at Yorktown. When the station was attacked, it added a very personal element to the story.
You must not have been around here long, Trek fans can be pretty intolerant.
I didn’t find the Sulu scene forced at all, if anything it was far too subtle. It was like they were trying to have enough plausible deniability in case a majority of fans objected and a large portion were vocal in their displeasure.
I haven't been on these boards long, no.
I think "Americans" can be pretty intolerant.
I think trek fans, on a social level, tend to be more tolerant than many groups I know, that isn't to say there is zero "intolerance" among them.
I think the Sulu thing was forced, considering the story behind writing him as gay, was simply forced. They labored and labored as to how to get a "gay something" into the film. I think they shoulda listened to Takai.
Either way it was such a passing moment it didn't take "away" from the film. I am glad you didn't find it forced. Sometimes I think I'm too nitpicky for my own good.
Okay, tell me, what the fuck does that actually mean?
No romance serves any real purpose in anything other than to have people have romantic interactions. It's just part of life, and some stories focus on it because they want to.
We're just sitting here, waiting for people to stop using that excuse to stop writing us being happy out of anything because of...nothing.
There's no substance to that statement, it's just trotted out over and over and over and over every fucking time anyone LGBTQ is visible and in love.
So what the fuck do you people want? that's all we're asking, what the fuck is finally going to make that line stop appearing?
Cause they labored so hard as to how to fit a gay character in just for the sake of having a gay character in. and they even discussed it with Takai, and they took a straight character and rewrote a straight character as gay just to have a gay character in the film, for sake of having a gay character. I mean, the documented story of the writing is pretty clear from my perspective. Hurry up and put someone gay in there.
I don't think it added a personal element at all, it wasn't truly part of the story.
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