Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"

[JRTStarlight]

I never minded the story of Encounter at Farpoint, but some of that acting is pretty hard to take.

I excuse it, of course, since they are still finding their legs, but that doesn't make it good acting. I only saw part 1 of Discovery so far, but none of that really pulled my focus as horrible acting. There was a lot of stupid stuff, bad writing, dim witted ideas, unlikely occurrences, and the Klingon's native language doesn't sound particularly fluid, and other problems besides, but not once did I point at someone and say, wow, that person can't act like I did with Tasha's impassioned pleas, or Troi's empathic feelings of Q, or Riker's beaming like the sun shined out of Picard's arse when he hadn't really done anything impressive.

Well, it's been a while, but I remember it was pretty bad. I at least didn't get the feeling that level of awful acting ability was everywhere in Discovery, no matter what else I might have thought.

Just my opinion, and TMMV, of course.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I did feel that in Discovery, there was little to no chemistry issues between the actors or the awkward "learning how to gel" phase that seemed to be there with shows like TNG or Xfiles. The acting in discovery overall seemed top notch to me, really top notch.

The effects were stellar too.There didn't seem to be that gap between "feature film" and "tv show" that we often see with these effects spectacles.

I have some qualms with the plot overall and some qualms with the finite execution of the plot, and the overall feel, some of the writing,

ok so I have qualms with pretty much everything except the quality of effects and the individual acting.,

 

[JRTStarlight]

I felt there was practically an overload of flash over substance, like Abrams' movies, and unless you could rewatch it several times you would probably miss more than you saw. Meanwhile, the story isn't that interesting.

As a set up for what comes later, it's probably fine, but as a stand alone "episodic" adventure, it left something to be desired.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I did read a couple tweets from Isaacs, or hear an interview, I can't remember now, so many snipits of info.

Either way he says the real weird stuff is coming so hopefully, we get better adventure.

 

[cooleddie74]

Something tells me that Anthony Rapp, Jason Isaacs and Doug Jones may have some excellent chemistry with one another. You can't get those three guys on a bridge and not have some interesting character interactions.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

This is bad- I just watched Encounter at Farpoint to celebrate TNG's 30th. It was BETTER than the DSC pilot. And it's 30 years old. (still remember where I was first time it aired, too)

I just rewatched Encounter at Farpoint and DSC absolutely blew it out of the water. There was barely a single good performance in farpoint, no interesting relationships to be found, ugly visuals at every turn and the story was one of the lamest in the history of the franchise. DSC, meanwhile, had an incomplete story that was rather bogged down by the ponderous Klingons, but at least it had interesting stakes (and I'd still take these Klingons over the bandi any day). It was also utterly gorgeous to look at and had a solid, interesting command relationship between Georgiou, Burnham and Saru.

 

[cultcross]

Something tells me that Anthony Rapp, Jason Isaacs and Doug Jones may have some excellent chemistry with one another. You can't get those three guys on a bridge and not have some interesting character interactions.

Given how Saru has been set up I think his interaction with Lorca is going to be very interesting indeed. Chalk and cheese, I'd think.

 

[USS Fardell]

The Vulcan Hello review

The first episode, introducing the main character, Michael Burnham. An interesting beginning. The first scene brilliantly sets up the relationship between Burnham and her captain. It is also an effective introduction to who Georgeou is as the captain of the Shenzhou. An explorer and warrior, which experience allows her to repudiate Burnham's insistance upon firing upon the Klingons. The rest of the Shenzhou bridge crew (what we see of them) are depicted quite competently. Saru in particular.

(Although the food web description isn't that plausible. State that the species is a prey species and leave it at that.) However, Saru does make for an interesting character. Now for the elephant in the room... the Klingons. That they look different doesn't matter for the purposes of the story. It would have worked just as well with the TMP-ENT makeup. What information there is in the story does build on what we know about the Klingons from the other series. T'Kumva makes for an interesting character...

That he wants to reunite the Empire by invoking the mantle of Kahless (or being his successor) is an interesting development. It does add depth to the Klingons (despite what detractors may say.) The character of Voq is also interesting, the one of no house. However, this only the first half of the premiere, there is not much to say about the story. (So; more about it in the two part premiere review) But there is a lot of build up for the next part of the episode, including with Burham's attempted mutiny.

That she took Sarek's advice in that manner wasn't Sarek's fault. It seems interesting that Sarek would take on Burnham as a ward after she had lost her parents. I would like to see where this is leading. All in all, it is a good start to the series. 8.5/10.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is "Remain Klingon!" a reference to the Augment plague?

 

[137th Gebirg]

That remains to be seen at this point. It is possible.

 

[the Sisko]

I guess I see the story as a failure of logic. Burham contacted Sarek to find out how Vulcan kept the Klingons at bay.

I don't see how the Vulcan tactics used are transferrable to the Federation. Vulcan's and humans (starfleet) have different risk profiles and foriegn relations. Enterprise Era Vulcans (which is what she was asking about) fired first often (even on Enterprise) and had few friends. The Federation has lots of friends/members because they have a willingness to be fired upon first (and strong enough shields to not die).

It was also a different galaxy. Enterprise depicted a galaxy where no species was ultra powerful with dozens or hundreds of worlds. The Klingons and vulcans had compatible interests (don't inhabit planets too close to my planets, don't fly across my borders, don't interfere with my free space for future exploration/conquest/trade). The Federation's goal of explore and expand means it will eventually share a border with every isolationist power, threatening their sense of security. Her tactic didn't just require Shenzou to fire first but for every Federation ship to fire first (and for the federation to either have military superiority or a willingness to absorb regular losses).

My hope for the show is that her new Captain sees like she (and Sarek) saw but she eventually comes to see like Georgiou did.

 

[DigificWriter]

I don't see how the Vulcan tactics used are transferrable to the Federation.

Because we see Commander Riker administer a "Vulcan Hello" in the TNG episode A Matter of Honor (that's the episode where he goes on an Officer Exchange Program aboard a Klingon ship and can't get any respect from the crew of said ship until he physically beats up a crewmember who is questioning his orders).

 

[Ometiklan]

...I don't see how the Vulcan tactics used are transferrable to the Federation...The Federation has lots of friends/members because they have a willingness to be fired upon first (and strong enough shields to not die).

It was also a different galaxy...

I agree that the Federation's "only shoot second, and only if absolutely necessary" policy, plus openness and expansiveness, invites a lot of friends and is what makes them the leading light/power in the area, but I don't think this is 100% applicable to Discovery or even TOS. It is a different galaxy then. Maybe this is just me, but my feeling is that in the time of TOS (and this could be even more applicable during Discovery since we don't yet know much about the political/military map of the quadrant at this point 10 years before TOS) the Federation and the Klingons are much more evenly matched than in the TNG era. Even in TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise" shows a Federation losing a war to the Klingons. In the Discovery era, a "shoot second if we get the chance" policy could lead to the devastation of Federation territories. Outside of the Enterprise (and probably the other Constitution class ships) I don't get the feeling Starfleet ships of this era can give the advantage away to the Klingons and survive.

 

[JRTStarlight]

But were they just fighting Klingons in Yesterday's Enterprise, or were others allied against the Federation, too? I mean, they may not have explicitly said, but for all we know, it could be the Romulans and the Klingons, or other factors besides the general idea the Klingons alone were as powerful or even more powerful than the entire Federation (including the Vulcans, Andorians, Tellerites, the professor and Mary Ann, opps, I mean, and all the rest).

I find it difficult to believe the Klingons alone and by brute force were defeating the entire Federation, so even if the Klingons were the tip of the spear or their main opponent, I strongly feel there's a lot more going on there - particularly since the Romulans were always trying to get the Klingons on their side in TNG. In that timeline, they probably succeeded. After all, it was a Romulan attack on a Klingon colony that went unreported before (they had no idea what happened Enterprise-C in that time line). Only when it put up a good enough fight did the word get out, the Romulan plan fail since everybody now knows what evil the Romulans were up to, and the Klingons took notice when a Federation ship died honorably fighting for them.

Sheer speculation, of course.

 

[JD]

Wasn't it just Duras family that was allying with Romulans, not the whole Empire?

 

[Longinus]

I find it difficult to believe the Klingons alone and by brute force were defeating the entire Federation, so even if the Klingons were the tip of the spear or their main opponent, I strongly feel there's a lot more going on there - particularly since the Romulans were always trying to get the Klingons on their side in TNG.

Since directly before the conflict the Romulans and the Klingons were fighting each other, I find it unlikely that they'd become allies.

As for the Klingons beating the Federation, I don't find that implausible at all. The Klingon Empire has always been depicted as a galactic great power, on par with the Federation. It is an ancient interstellar empire, probably controlling huge swaths of space with a lot of resources. Besides, even if the Federation may have some advantages, the Klingons are a warrior culture, they're good at fighting, and unlike the feds, they love fighting; there would be no war weariness.

 

[JRTStarlight]

Wasn't it just Duras family that was allying with Romulans, not the whole Empire?

Mostly, yeah, and if they had succeeded, they would have ruled the Klingon Empire.

Since directly before the conflict the Romulans and the Klingons were fighting each other, I find it unlikely that they'd become allies.

And if they had destroyed a Klingon colony and successfully blamed it on the Federation (maybe with the help of the Duras family) do you still feel they may not have concluded the destruction of the Federation made the Romulans an acceptable ally? After all, so what they were fighting the Romulans before? Fighting is a worthy and honorable endeavor.

As for the Klingons beating the Federation, I don't find that implausible at all. The Klingon Empire has always been depicted as a galactic great power, on par with the Federation. It is an ancient interstellar empire, probably controlling huge swaths of space with a lot of resources. Besides, even if the Federation may have some advantages, the Klingons are a warrior culture, they're good at fighting, and unlike the feds, they love fighting; there would be no war weariness.

Yet in the TOS movies they were dying on the vine. And I think (though I may be wrong) the Federation and its tech was outpacing them quite handily such that the Klingons had to adopt the practice of traveling in packs, like three D-7's, since that's what it took to beat one Constitution Class Starship, all other things being equal. 1 on 1, they would lose most every time without guile and sabotage or some sneaky plan. Even 2 on 1, they'd probably lose.

By TNG, two top-notch Romulan ships were the match for Enterprise-D, but alone, a Galaxy class ship would defeat one Romulan. And klingons were still traveling in packs.

Given all that, it just seems unlikely the Klingons alone could do it on their own without aid or support, even if only covertly supported by others. Just my opinion, of course. YMMV.

 

[Gonzo]

Mostly, yeah, and if they had succeeded, they would have ruled the Klingon Empire.


And if they had destroyed a Klingon colony and successfully blamed it on the Federation (maybe with the help of the Duras family) do you still feel they may not have concluded the destruction of the Federation made the Romulans an acceptable ally? After all, so what they were fighting the Romulans before? Fighting is a worthy and honorable endeavor.


Yet in the TOS movies they were dying on the vine. And I think (though I may be wrong) the Federation and its tech was outpacing them quite handily such that the Klingons had to adopt the practice of traveling in packs, like three D-7's, since that's what it took to beat one Constitution Class Starship, all other things being equal. 1 on 1, they would lose most every time without guile and sabotage or some sneaky plan. Even 2 on 1, they'd probably lose.

By TNG, two top-notch Romulan ships were the match for Enterprise-D, but alone, a Galaxy class ship would defeat one Romulan. And klingons were still traveling in packs.

Given all that, it just seems unlikely the Klingons alone could do it on their own without aid or support, even if only covertly supported by others. Just my opinion, of course. YMMV.

A single D'Deridex Warbird was twice the size and easily a match for the Galaxy class and I am sure Picard said so in one of the episodes (I forget which one as its been years), that was the biggest and most powerful ship the Romulans had at the time, the best the Klingons had was the Vorcha which was solid but a bit behind Starfleet and the Romulans, later on the Klingons had the Negh'Var which brought them up to near parity by the time of the Dominion war.

 

[Longinus]

And if they had destroyed a Klingon colony and successfully blamed it on the Federation (maybe with the help of the Duras family) do you still feel they may not have concluded the destruction of the Federation made the Romulans an acceptable ally? After all, so what they were fighting the Romulans before? Fighting is a worthy and honorable endeavor.

At this point of time I really don't see the Klingons buying it. They know the feds wouldn't do that.

Yet in the TOS movies they were dying on the vine. And I think (though I may be wrong) the Federation and its tech was outpacing them quite handily such that the Klingons had to adopt the practice of traveling in packs, like three D-7's, since that's what it took to beat one Constitution Class Starship, all other things being equal. 1 on 1, they would lose most every time without guile and sabotage or some sneaky plan. Even 2 on 1, they'd probably lose.

By TNG, two top-notch Romulan ships were the match for Enterprise-D, but alone, a Galaxy class ship would defeat one Romulan. And klingons were still traveling in packs.

Given all that, it just seems unlikely the Klingons alone could do it on their own without aid or support, even if only covertly supported by others. Just my opinion, of course. YMMV.

Klingons tend to prefer packs of smaller ships over a bunch of big ships (unlike the Romulans) but if they have enough ships, that really doesn't matter. Though in this light it is a bit odd that in Discovery it is the Klingons who have giant ships.

In any case, narratively the Klingons have to be real threat to the Federation for many of the plots to work, and they've always been treated as such.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It takes 8 years to turn a Klingon baby into a modern soldier, followed by another 200 years of service.

It takes 20 years to turn a human baby into a modern soldier, followed by another 30 years of service.