Are the new Klingons supposed to be White Republicans?

[Spot261]

Federation as The West? Sorry, never going to buy it, especially if by the west you mean the USA. They are almost literally polar opposites of the US in ideology, policies and practise. The Federation has never been America in space.

Starfleet as NATO? Conceivably but only if you expand NATO's peacetime role significantly.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Starfleet as NATO? Conceivably but only if you expand NATO's peacetime role significantly.

Well, at this point the Federation looks more like the Keystone Cops.

 

[Tribble puncher]

Federation as The West? Sorry, never going to buy it, especially if by the west you mean the USA. They are almost literally polar opposites of the US in ideology, policies and practise. The Federation has never been America in space.

Starfleet as NATO? Conceivably but only if you expand NATO's peacetime role significantly.

I think the Kingons see the federation as culturally weak, basically a bunch of space hipsters flying around in their iShips, absorbing every race they come across into their collective, which is full of qualities the Klingons loathe. Of course the Federation can't understand why the Galaxy isn't lining up to join it's ranks, because who wouldn't want some of this sweet utopian action?

 

[Prax]

That's not at all what I said. We're talking about Discovery, how the Klingons are presented, their interaction with the Federation, and by extension how the Federation/Starfleet is presented in those parameters.

I compared the rhetoric and position of the Klingons to someone like Qaddafi, and the way they view the Federation likewise. They are saying the same things. Also, the rhetoric of the west, and western leaders(particularly the US) and the artless rhetoric of Admiral whatshisface.

Nothing to do with past incarnations of the Federation or Starfleet.

 

[Tenacity]

You know if the Klingons aren't the Russians anymore who will be the Russians and represent Putin and his influence on Trump. He has helped give Trump power just as much as the alt right.

You mean not at all?

 

[Spot261]

I get the analogy and agree it does work, I just don't think its the best one or the one that was intended. Entirely aside from public comments making the intent clear the dynamic is far too close to the current trends towards white nationalism we are seeing several countries.

The difference between the two trends is of course pretty arbitrary in that they are essentially much the same sentiments and behaviours being expressed by two different groups. Which we choose to ascribe the analogy to is meaningless so long as we get the message.

That people are questioning the portrayal of klingons as being a ham fisted attempt to shoe horn that imagery in is somewhat amusing though, their actions and motivations are pretty much as they have been, it's simply that those motivations are particularly relevant in the current climate and (I suspect) a little too close for comfort at times.

 

[Tim Thomason]

You know if the Klingons aren't the Russians anymore who will be the Russians and represent Putin and his influence on Trump. He has helped give Trump power just as much as the alt right. I hope they work that into the metaphor. How does one also make a statement on "Fake News" and the internet in Trek.

Jason

The Romulans. They're providing T'Kuvma's group with technology (cloaking device) in order to unite the Klingons so they can attack their centuries-old enemies, the Federation and (more specifically) the Vulcans.

The Romulans are masters of subterfuge and intrigue, and no doubt have spies in place to spread misinformation to favor their interests.

 

[Jayson1]

Your bias is showing. Putin had nothing to do with Trump, and there is no evidence anywhere that he did.

Even if that was true nobody can't deny that Putin is a bad guy who

Which, at the risk of sounding patronising, is exactly the sort of thing I think the best trek reminds us of. The idea that an enemy is essentially just another version of ourselves, another set of human beings who think and feel much as we do.

I agree but I wonder if that can be done with this version of Klingons. They stripped much of their humanity that I felt the TNG and even TOS versions had and went for stock monster villians that might work at being scary but not much more than that. It might help if we see what they do when not standing around while talking in slogans and performing rituals.

Jason

 

[Spot261]

It might help if we see what they do when not standing around while talking in slogans and performing rituals.

Jason

Isn't that exactly what they've always mostly done?

 

[Jayson1]

The Romulans. They're providing T'Kuvma's group with technology (cloaking device) in order to unite the Klingons so they can attack their centuries-old enemies, the Federation and (more specifically) the Vulcans.

The Romulans are masters of subterfuge and intrigue, and no doubt have spies in place to spread misinformation to favor their interests.

Romulans would be a good choice. PLus like Putin I think they have interest beyond just America which the alt right tends to have. So I wonder who would then be North Korea and China. Who in Trek represents a society that wouldn't be a threat to anyone if it didn't have a certain type of weapon and who out their would be a potential replacement of the Federation as the number 1 Superpower? Maybe the Bajorans ad Cardisians could be fit into the methphor, somehow.

Jason

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Isn't that exactly what they've always mostly done?

Let's see...

• Shout about honour
• Shout about glory
• Shout about honourable death
• Shout about glorious death
• Shout about Sto'Vo'Kor
• Shout insults
• Shout about shouting
• Shout and call it singing about the glory you've just shouted about
• Hit each other with pain sticks
• Hit self with pain stick
• Stab something while shouting
• Ritually poison self (tea service)
• Eat something that's either raw or still alive
• Drink heavily
• Head-butt friend
• Head-butt friend's friend
• Get in a fight
• If there's no one to fight, find a way to beat self up
• Repeat list in no particular order

Nah, they're not caricatures already at all.

 

[Jayson1]

Isn't that exactly what they've always mostly done?

Not really. I mean Worf to some degree because he is the ultimate stick-in-the mud but to me they have bigger than life personalties who enjoy life. Sacred rituals seem to be just another excuse to fight and have fun. Martock I think was also a great example of what I want to see more of. To me he was the closest thing to a "everyman" character for Klingons. He could have some of the traditional Klingon tropes but he also could talk to someone like Sisko in normal everyday fashion. I don't see these new Klingons talking about how their wife let their favorite pet Targ escape because she left the door open. Humor is a underated aspect to the Klingons IMO.

Jason

 

[Longinus]

Not really. I mean Worf to some degree because he is the ultimate stick-in-the mud but to me they have bigger than life personalties who enjoy life. Sacred rituals seem to be just another excuse to fight and have fun. Martock I think was also a great example of what I want to see more of. To me he was the closest thing to a "everyman" character for Klingons. He could have some of the traditional Klingon tropes but he also could talk to someone like Sisko in normal everyday fashion. I don't see these new Klingons talking about how their wife let their favorite pet Targ escape because she left the door open. Humor is a underated aspect to the Klingons IMO.

Absolutely agreed! TNG/DS9 space viking Klingons had fun and they were fun! I really hope we get some of that once we see more of the Klingon's of other houses. I mean I can see the seriousness being a feature T'Kumva's little cult, religious fanatics are generally not known for their great sense of humour.

 

[Spot261]

Not really. I mean Worf to some degree because he is the ultimate stick-in-the mud but to me they have bigger than life personalties who enjoy life. Sacred rituals seem to be just another excuse to fight and have fun. Martock I think was also a great example of what I want to see more of. To me he was the closest thing to a "everyman" character for Klingons. He could have some of the traditional Klingon tropes but he also could talk to someone like Sisko in normal everyday fashion. I don't see these new Klingons talking about how their wife let their favorite pet Targ escape because she left the door open. Humor is a underated aspect to the Klingons IMO.

Jason

I suspect we'll a wee bit more to them as the series progresses

 

[Jayson1]

I suspect we'll a wee bit more to them as the series progresses

That's what I hope for. For starters it might be nice to meet the scientist and aithest on the ship because if your flying around spaceships you actually need people who think about things other rituals and giving speeches. Also I said it awhile back but I want a Klingon sex scene. I usually hate most sex scenes because they always feel tagged on and don't make anything more interesting. The Klingon sex scene though would be kind of interesting and I want them to remember the part that Worf talked about how the male reads poetry to the female while she throws heavy objects at him.

Jason

 

[Spot261]

Also I said it awhile back but I want a Klingon sex scene.

 

[Galileo7]

Also I said it awhile back but I want a Klingon sex scene.

 

[Jayson1]

Come on you know it would be fun! Clearly they wouldn't be HBO graphic so instead just use fancy camera work to show it. Toss in some grunting and klingon words while Klingon opera plays in the background. If you want to have a little humor have their pet Targ watch them.

Jason

 

[Spot261]

Come on you know it would be fun! Clearly they wouldn't be HBO graphic so instead just use fancy camera work to show it. Toss in some grunting and klingon words while Klingon opera plays in the background. If you want to have a little humor have their pet Targ watch them.

Jason

Jason, please stop this thing you are doing.

It isn't nice.

 

[Longinus]

I think we should have a super graphic Klingon gay sex scene, with a lot of dirty talk in Klingonese. The amount of people it would make uncomfortable would totally be worth it.