Are the new Klingons supposed to be White Republicans?

[Phoenix219]

I’m a moderate conservative and I didn’t see that either.

Yeah, if anything I saw it as fundamentalist Islam fighting back over the expanding Westernization of the world / Federation diversity influencing the galaxy.

I was hoping they would make a distinct example out of the TOS / augment Klingons appearance as literal proof of this infection.

 

[Phoenix219]

You know if the Klingons aren't the Russians anymore who will be the Russians and represent Putin and his influence on Trump. He has helped give Trump power just as much as the alt right. I hope they work that into the metaphor. How does one also make a statement on "Fake News" and the internet in Trek.

Jason

Your bias is showing. Putin had nothing to do with Trump, and there is no evidence anywhere that he did.

 

[Cyrus]

It's because ISIS and the extreme right are ultimately the same. They're ultraconservative fanatics that are afraid of progress and despise human rights.

This is true

 

[Prax]

Yeah, if anything I saw it as fundamentalist Islam fighting back over the expanding Westernization of the world / Federation diversity influencing the galaxy.

I was hoping they would make a distinct example out of the TOS / augment Klingons appearance as literal proof of this infection.

Ahhh. This makes me think. The Klingon leader guy was doing exactly what Kaddafi was doing a few years ago at that African Union Conference when he was trying to rally the other African leaders against Western dominance. I'll have to see if that's on Youtube. The similarities are striking!

 

[Spot261]

Yeah, if anything I saw it as fundamentalist Islam fighting back over the expanding Westernization of the world

That works too, especially when you consider the two are essentially the same behaviours

 

[Phoenix219]

That works too, especially when you consider the two are essentially the same behaviours

I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[Refuge]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Yeah I'm trying to work out who the reviled current 'enemy' the Klingons are supposed to be the same as and also how the alt right are the same as ISIS and Communists and how the left is somehow the heroes??

 

[Spot261]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I don't feel anything, it wasn't a political statement, objective behavioural observation is my stock in trade. The psychological and behavioural similarities between groups like ISIS and white extremism are well documented and valid.

 

[Refuge]

I don't feel anything, it wasn't a political statement, objective behavioural observation is my stock in trade. The psychological and behavioural similarities between groups like ISIS and white extremism are well documented and valid.

I guess it is the 'extremism' part that creates the behaviour.

When viewing the warring Klingons it's hard to see extremism but rather to view the whole group as such. We are supposed to 'dehumanise' the enemy by not seeing ourselves in them and by thinking we are so much better, and we are good at that.

 

[Spot261]

I guess it is the 'extremism' part that creates the behaviour.

When viewing the warring Klingons it's hard to see extremism but rather to view the whole group as such. We are supposed to 'dehumanise' the enemy by not seeing ourselves in them and by thinking we are so much better, and we are good at that.

Which, at the risk of sounding patronising, is exactly the sort of thing I think the best trek reminds us of. The idea that an enemy is essentially just another version of ourselves, another set of human beings who think and feel much as we do.

 

[Phoenix219]

I was hoping it was an ancient house of pure bloods, come out of hiding, trying to reunite the fractured empire and Klingon purity. I wanted to see the other variants of Klingons and their various reactions to the guys from the pilot. I guess it could still happen..... shrug.

 

[Zeppster]

It's because ISIS and the extreme right are ultimately the same. They're ultraconservative fanatics that are afraid of progress and despise human rights.

Leftest seem like they despise your rights if you are straight white non rich male. I don't see a big difference between left and right in politics anymore. Both want to expand government and limit individual rights.

 

[Longinus]

Leftest seem like they despise your rights if you are straight white non rich male.

No. I's just that some straight white males can't handle that other people might want to have same rights than they've always had. And if this is about 'free speech' people telling someone to stop being a sexist/racist/otherwise bigoted ass is not 'despising their rights', nor is it despising them because they're white straight male; it is despising them because they choose to use their free speech to spread bigotry.

 

[Zeppster]

No. I's just that some straight white males can't handle that other people might want to have same rights than they've always had. And if this is about 'free speech' people telling someone to stop being a sexist/racist/otherwise bigoted ass is not 'despising their rights', nor is it despising them because they're white straight male; it is despising them because they choose to use their free speech to spread bigotry.

Maybe you are talking about decades ago. But people of color and women have the same rights and the only time it's not been true is been at the hands of collectivists and governments not at individuals hands. I don't care for bigotry either. But liberals seem to hate people of color more than anyone else. Look at what liberalism just under 50 years has done to black society now. I really believe going to a collective form is just going to continue the same bigotry doesn't matter about the rhetoric.

 

[Spot261]

Maybe you are talking about decades ago. But people of color and women have the same rights and the only time it's not been true is been at the hands of collectivists and governments not at individuals hands. I don't care for bigotry either. But liberals seem to hate people of color more than anyone else. Look at what liberalism just under 50 years has done to black society now. I really believe going to a collective form is just going to continue the same bigotry doesn't matter about the rhetoric.

Are you seriously claiming a black transgender person is treated equally to a straight cis white male in modern society?

Are you claiming black men are not disproportionately targeted by the police?

Have you looked at the demographics of the US government?

Liberalism isn't about wanting extra rights, it's about wanting the same rights and having those rights applied equally.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Everybody please keep in mind this is the Discovery forum.

Discussing whether the Klingons are supposed to remind people of some present-day group is okay. But now you've all derailed to just talk about current politics and the last few posts have absolutely nothing to do with how the Klingons are presented in Discovery.

Get back on track.

 

[Albinator]

Your bias is showing. Putin had nothing to do with Trump, and there is no evidence anywhere that he did.

Your bias is showing in your steadfast denial. Currently there is an investigation into such connections due to evidence that suggests there could be, so it would be unwise to insist so definitively that there is OR isn't.

I think a Klingon analog for Trump and the Russians would be an apt parallel both for supposed connections and for the fallout that has been a result.

 

[Prax]

I don't see these Klingons as doing anything that Klingons haven't been shown to do before, or Romulans for that matter. The Federation is expanding, and they feel threatened by it. So one charismatic leader is trying to rouse the other Klingon leaders to war. The depict them as having all these ritualistic religious beliefs, but is this any different than the Klingons we know?

One part that annoyed me was how they sort of depicted the Federation basically like a Nato or any US President through the Admiral. He gives the Klingons a rehearsed speech with slogans n all. Uck. The Klingon is listening, then says "and here it comes," when the Admiral then says, "we come in peace." and stuff like "lets open a dialogue, Because when we're talking..." It's really "bonk, bonk on the head" like a lot the dialogue.

And after that, I was utterly bewildered at the sequence of events. I've seen it twice now and still couldn't tell you what or why.

I found the Qaddafi video but I won't post it here. There are a few speeches he made between 2008 and 2011 that are very much like the Klingon leader. And there are other speeches by Arab and Iranian leaders, whom I won't mention that are also strikingly similar to this Klingon guy.

I think that's the closest real world comparison. The Federation is the West, and the Klingon is any of the various leaders that go around making these speeches pleading with their counterparts to stand up against them(the west).

These Klingons(or this one charismatic Klingons) see the Federation as pervasive, hypocritical, expansionist, and a threat to their sovereignty.

 

[KennyB]

When I watch I try to just see Klingons and not look for hidden or even overt references to current politics..........silly me.

 

[Prax]

That doesn't mean you can't look for them for the purposes of this discussion.