A bunch of Press stuff on TrekCore

[cultcross]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this little item from that story:

I glossed over that little bit of small universe stuff, of course the only wine in the Trek universe is either Romulan ale, or Château Picard. I'm over it.

I don't get why people get hired to do an IP, if they pretty much openly loathe what makes said IP unique compared to others.t

Not sure who you're referring to but the Discovery cast and crew have been banging the Gene's Vision drum since the very first press conference. SM-G is on talk shows taking about utopian hope for the future.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Engineering from the press tour

Meh....not blue enough.

 

[Rahul]

Not sure who you're referring to but the Discovery cast and crew have been banging the Gene's Vision drum since the very first press conference. SM-G is on talk shows taking about utopian hope for the future.

I have not the slightest issue with the actors, really. They're doing their stuff, and SMG especially goes above and beyond to dive into the whole Trek thing.

What I'm less content with is the general direction of this show, which falls in the domain of the producers, and specifically the focus on war with the klingons, another 'grim-n-gritty' version of a beloved property that was neither known for being grim nor gritty, and the art direction, which has somehow switched the designs and gave the Federation the brutalistic, fascist aesthetic, and the klingons the overly intricate, delicate style.

Also: It's these same producers that go on and on about how much in 'canon' they are and honouring GR's vision, who at the same time couldn't give a shit about exploration and (ironically) discoveries, and instead seem to focus on war and explosions, and have completely rebooted the klingons in a way that is incompatible with any previous portrayals of them, let alone canon, and (at least visually) basically a giant middle finger to everything klingon we know, including the very beloved character of Worf.

This whole thing smells a lot like something where many talented, enthusiased people are working on it, but sadly the guys in charge are not visionary story tellers, but under the direction of a creative comitee that really doesn't care about the the material beyond the money that comes with the name recognition.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

...What I'm less content with is the general direction of this show, which falls in the domain of the producers, and specifically the focus on war with the klingons, another 'grim-n-gritty' version of a beloved property that was neither known for being grim nor gritty, and the art direction, which has somehow switched the designs and gave the Federation the brutalistic, fascist aesthetic, and the klingons the overly intricate, delicate style.

For what it's worth, Martin-Green seems to be asserting that DSC will display a hopeful and optimistic future. During the CBS Morning Show interview, she said this about the vision of the future in DSC:

"...I think that when you have a story that shows a picture of a utopian future -- and it's been that way the entire time; it's the legacy of the show -- if you can tap into that, I think that having a vision of it can help you actualize it..."

Also: It's these same producers that go on and on about how much in 'canon' they are and honouring GR's vision, who at the same time couldn't give a shit about exploration and (ironically) discoveries, and instead seem to focus on war and explosions...

I could be wrong (because I haven't seen it yet) but I'm hoping that the fact that Burnham's specialty is Xenoanthroplogy that we will get stories in which she uses that xenoanthropology expertise to "seek out new life and new civilizations" -- i.e., stories about discovery.

 

[zar]

What's wrong with having the positive world of TOS as something that rose from the ashes of war?

Well that certainly wasn't something Gene would have approved of!

*cough* Andromeda *cough* Earth Final Conflict *cough*

 

[Rahul]

I hope so too. Also, since this is arguibly what Bryan Fuller intended to be the "first" of his anthology seasons, we can assume that the "klingon war arc" will be finished with the end of the first season. In fact, Alex Kurtzman already explicitly said the second season will not be about it but something different, although the fall-out of said war might play a role.

Again, this is no doom prediction: They are doing a lot of things right, and I think it will further improve the longer it goes on, with the producers getting more fan-feedback and being able to adapt to criticism.

I'm just annoyed at the large number of avoicable mistakes, and was hoping that, for one time, we wouldn't start with a very hokey and backlash-inducing first season... OTOH all of that is pretty much a given with a completely new creative team taking over via restart instead of taking over during production (akin to Many Coto, or GR's successors after TNG S2).

 

[Christopher]

So they're doing DS9's holo-communicator again huh?

...Although when they say "upgraded to holographic", I wonder if they mean someone standing in the room with you, or holographic the way 24th Century viewscreens are.

We've seen several shots in the trailers of Sarek and other characters appearing as your standard sci-fi-style translucent holograms floating in midair. Like Star Wars holograms, but without the scan lines. They said they did it so they could have actors in the same room interacting, so I assume they film them with the actors physically present and then use split screen and digital effects to make one of them look translucent.

I'm waiting for the practical transparent displays that they say will actually be commercially available later this year. Say what? I need two of those for my dual widescreen monitors at work. stat.

I've never understood the conceit that transparent screens would be in any way desirable. Who wants a screen that shows images you can't see clearly because there's stuff showing through from behind them? Heck, if there were any kind of a bright light behind it, you couldn't see a thing. Every sci-fi show and movie seems to want future display screens to be either on transparent screens or floating translucently in midair, and both of those are terrible for image clarity (plus the latter is physically impossible unless there's some kind of mist of reflective particles being sprayed into the air for the image to be projected on, which seems absurdly overcomplicated).

But on DIS, it's heavily implied that our supposed hero is the one who shoots first. Against advice and direct order of her Captain. Which leads to her being jailed (until Lorca pulls her out of jail for his own little nefarious purpose).

I don't know about you, but for me it's a massive difference wether our heroes got drawn into a war, or wether they themself decided to start one. Hint: I don't see one of those as "heroes".

A lot of heroes don't start out as heroes. A lot of stories begin with characters making terrible mistakes and becoming heroes by striving to correct them. Spider-Man became a hero to atone for his act of selfishness that led to Uncle Ben's death. Tony Stark became Iron Man to make amends for the harm he caused by selling weapons indiscriminately. Walter Bishop's whole arc on Fringe was basically about making amends for his own terrible mistake that set all the events of the series in motion. Much the same goes for Harold Finch on Person of Interest -- and virtually every protagonist on that show was someone who'd done terrible things in the past and was now being given a chance to redeem themselves.

It seems self-evident to me that Burnham's actions triggering the war are meant to be seen as a mistake, not as something the show is endorsing or celebrating. Her arc will presumably be a journey to redeem herself by correcting that mistake.

What's wrong with having the positive world of TOS as something that rose from the ashes of war? That doesn't make TOS dystopian any more than the real-world post-WWII economic boom years were dystopian just because they happened to follow the war.

That's true enough, but we've always assumed that the war in question there was the Earth-Romulan War. Both "The Infinite Vulcan" c. 2270 and The Wrath of Khan c. 2285 assert that the Federation has been at peace for a century. So a war in 2255 is tricky to reconcile with that. Unless it's a pretty brief war, which is consistent with it being wrapped up within a single, serialized 15-episode season.

 

[urbandefault]

I'm just annoyed at the large number of avoicable (sic) mistakes

Yet not a single episode has aired.

I think I'll wait before passing judgment.

 

[Mudd]

There are no mistakes so far - just stuff some people don't like.

 

[Kor]

There aren't any mistakes.

In professional television production of this caliber, close to 100% of everything is deliberate. There are very, very few true errors that slip by.

Kor

 

[Mudd]

I don't get why people get hired to do an IP, if they pretty much openly loathe what makes said IP unique compared to others.

Because the IP owners understand that the most important thing is that they get people in charge who can produce successful entertainment. They understand that the IP must be rescued from its fans in order to breathe and become widely popular again.

 

[Christopher]

There aren't any mistakes.

In professional television production of this caliber, close to 100% of everything is deliberate. There are very, very few true errors that slip by.

Oh, if only. The fact is, with something so complicated made by so many people on a finite schedule, mistakes are inevitable. All human efforts contain mistakes. A hundred people can look over a single work a dozen times each and try to catch every last mistake, and they'll still miss at least one or two and probably add more in the process. I know this from my experience with copyediting and proofreading of books. I've had several embarrassing mistakes that nobody caught until after the works saw print, even though numerous people looked over the manuscripts numerous times and I personally reviewed them dozens of times in the writing and rewriting.

However, that applies to things that are actual mistakes, such as failing to notice a plot hole or error of fact or, say, having a stagehand visible in the background of a shot. The word "mistake" does not mean "creative choice I disagree with" or "intentional artistic license with the production design." I think maybe that's what you're trying to say, that the creators' choices were informed and intentional.

 

[Zonker]

Since the auto admin thread was closed I'm assuming they want us to post here.

Lt. Stamet’s “methods and life’s work is now being converted to be used for the war effort,” said Harberts, “and that bothers him greatly, and he talks about it a great deal. So we go into this with all of the people involved saying, this isn’t why we’re here. We have to do this, but this isn’t our main focus.”

It sounds like Stamet was designed as a very specific role for a very specific story. One my concerns with following Burnham as she progresses through the ranks is that we could lose a lot of potentially cool characters after a season or so, not when that character's story is exhausted but when they cease to be relevant to Burnham's story. It certainly feels premature to miss this character that I haven't seen in action yet, and that I don't know for sure is leaving, but it does leave me a little worried.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Engineering from the press tour

Looks like Spock's radioactive soup room from Wrath of Khan, where he had to stir the soup manually to get the mains online.

 

[Noname Given]

Let's be real here: The war in DS9 was started by the Dominion. They drew first blood. And still, the writers went way overboard with the WWII-analogies. But on DIS, it's heavily implied that our supposed hero is the one who shoots first. Against advice and direct order of her Captain. Which leads to her being jailed (until Lorca pulls her out of jail for his own little nefarious purpose).

I don't know about you, but for me it's a massive difference wether our heroes got drawn into a war, or wether they themself decided to start one. Hint: I don't see one of those as "heroes".

Let's See - what did Sisko allow Garak do to the Romulan Ambassador (who knew the Federation evidence had been faked) so that the Romulans would enter the war on the Fed side (in DS9 - "In The Pale Moonlight")?

And what actions did Section 31 take prior to and during the Fed/Dominion War - all in the name of preserving the holier than thou Federation?

 

[Rahul]

Let's See - what did Sisko allow Garak do to the Romulan Ambassador (who knew the Federation evidence had been faked) so that the Romulans would enter the war on the Fed side (in DS9 - "In The Pale Moonlight")?

And what actions did Section 31 take prior to and during the Fed/Dominion War - all in the name of preserving the holier than thou Federation?

Well, did you know that DS9 wasn't perfect? In fact, it was pretty much loathed by a bunch of Trekkies and is still always the "underground" choice. Those specific episodes are one of the main reason why, they rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

For me personally, it was Sisko firing biological weapon on a Maquis-colony - families, children and all - which was complete character assasination for me ("For the uniform"). It was a plot ploint for this episode. But after that, this fucker should have been trialed and jailed like any other war criminal deserves. Or at least the writers needed to admit they have a villain protagonist, a bad guy, like House of Cards or Death Note have, as their main character. But they chickened out. They still pretended he is "deep down a good guy". He got a slap on the wrist, and everything was fine again. For actual use of WMDs! And later murder! Which is a shame. Because, apart from that, Sisko was one of the best written , well-rounded characters Trek produced. But a war criminal can never win the contest for "best Captain" or even "admired hero".

I fear Discovery runs into a lot of the issues many people had with DS9 - too much focus on WWII IN SPACE!!!, 'shady' characers, a grim'n'gritty tone, and war crimes being part of 'character building'. Now, I'm not opposed to tackling any of those issues. I love movies like Apocalypse Now, or the new Battlestar Galactica. It just does not belong to Trek, because Trek never completely pulls through with it, and always wants our heroes to be both people doing questionable things and still heroes to look up to. That doesn't work. That's the one thing that didn't work on DS9, and made the arguibly best character written Trek show one of the least fan favourite ones.

 

[Longinus]

Yeah, I didn't like DS9 for those reasons (Archer in ENT had similar problems too) and I really hope Discovery does not go that route. Dark themes are fine, justifying war crimes and lauding villains as heroes is not. It is also fine for the hero to make a mistake or have a momentary lapse of moral judgement, as long as that is addressed and dealt as such.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

For me personally, it was Sisko firing biological weapon on a Maquis-colony - families, children and all - which was complete character assasination for me ("For the uniform"). It was a plot ploint for this episode. But after that, this fucker should have been trialed and jailed like any other war criminal deserves. Or at least the writers needed to admit they have a villain protagonist, a bad guy, like House of Cards or Death Note have, as their main character. But they chickened out. They still pretended he is "deep down a good guy". He got a slap on the wrist, and everything was fine again. For actual use of WMDs!

I guess you've never seen the movie Fail Safe, either version, or read the book on which it's based, then?

 

[Tosk]

Lets not bother to mention that Sisko both alerted the Maquis to evacuate an hour before he launched the torpedos, and was doing so in response to the Maquis using biogenic weapons.

And later murder!

Who did he murder?

 

[cultcross]

Out of interest, i thought I'd look back in bbs history to test the claim re DS9s popularity among fans. DS9 consistently ranks highest in series polls, and Sisko's a consistent third in Captain polls. I hadn't realised how predictable and consistent we are as a bunch actually. Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer, every time.