This.
I hope Discovery places "plot" first, avoids melodrama
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
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This.
No, he said the show would be garbage without the SF elements. Which seems to indicate that the acting, the writing and other elements are garbage and the only thing elevating the show is the SF aspects.
Obviously, a show that explored the same themes as Star Trek with a similar budget, production values and acting skill, wouldn't be Star Trek or Science Fiction, but it wouldn't necessarily be a garbage show because it lacked SF elements.
You realize that story arcs can be of different lengths/durations - right?
Abso-fraggin-lutely
I want more Farscape than B5. Go nuts with it. Make it fun.
In all seriousness, I hope it has its own identity and makes it's mark on the franchise.
In all seriousness, I hope it has its own identity and makes it's mark on the franchise.
I really don't see anyone arguing for this point. I could be wrong, but the idea of constantly delaying the resolution of an emotional point is an "arc."
Storytelling is always a balancing act of character moments and plot points but neither of those need to be sacrificed in the name of the other. I prefer the Kelvin movies because they form a cohesive character arc, while having a self-contained story.
I think Netflix's "Daredevil" is a good example of this as well, especially season 1, with all of the major players being introduced with their end goals and methods not always perfectly aligned. I'm hoping for that kind of character conflict, where Burnham having one way of solving a problem vs. Lorca, and even the Klingons have different points of view. and possible conflicts of how resolve the problem of the Federation.
That's what I want. Not sure why "arcs" are being conflated with poor storytelling.
Exactly so.
Not to mention, it was done in The Enemy Below from 1957 from two years earlier, which is not only crystal clear but also it was admitted allegedly to Harlan Ellison by BoT's author Paul Schneider that he had adapted that story to make BoT, and possibly also with influences from Run Silent, Run Deep from 1958.
Sprays post with shark repellent bat spray....I love that movie
Bat Shark Repellent Spray
^^^ I have fond memories of that episode! Made me chuckle! 
I think it will certainly have that. Whatever it is, I think it will be distinctly different from what we've had before, and hopefully begin a new Trek for a new generation/era. I enjoyed the JJ films a lot, but they were modern remakes of old Trek, not new Trek in any real sense. This show has the opportunity to do something genuinely new.
Yep, and I find that part of it really exciting, which is exactly why I say screw canon. Just give me a good series.
These are all character stories, or the character stories justify their existence. BoBW may have started with the big idea to have a huge Borg cliffhanger, but once the story process began, it was written from a perspective motivated by character.
Balance of Terror: A character drama about how war destroys people and sabotages relationships. Kirk and the Romulan commander would have been friends without war, Styles might not have harbored his bigotry, and Angela Martine and Robert Tomlinson would have survived and had the hope of a happy marriage. We learn a lot about all these characters, and how they react to things.
Best of Both Worlds: A story about Riker's ambivalence about taking on a captaincy of his own. He gets pushed further to think about it than ever before, first by Shelby's transfer, then by Picard's assimilation.
The Visitor: By far the most character-driven of all of these, it uses a science fiction premise to delve deeply into the relationship between Jake and Ben. Not only is this episode important as a stand-alone, it underscores how unready Jake is for Ben to leave, and how much he has to grow up by the time Ben finally does leave.
Darmok: Similar to Balance of Terror, it's a character drama that's almost the flipside of Balance of Terror's tragedy. Here, Picard and Dathon actually get to bond as the friends Kirk and the Romulan commander wanted to be.
Just for fun, some of the other universally-acclaimed stories certainly fit as well:
City on the Edge of Forever: We learn what line Kirk is willing to cross in the tension between love and duty. We even get to know Keeler quite well.
Amok Time: It's not just about Spock's arranged marriage, but about Kirk's utter devotion to him. The beautiful line "Isn't that worth a career?" speaks volumes.
The Trouble with Tribbles: Largely a farce, we still see Kirk's frustration and handling of bureaucracy, but everyone gets great moments.
Duet: How much can Kira forgive?
Far Beyond the Stars: An episode about Sisko further coping with his increasing visions as Emissary, as well as the important themes on representation.
Year of Hell: A tragedy about Annorax.
Cogenitor: Character, character, character.
Similitude: Character, character, character.
The Forge trilogy: Archer's journey toward understanding Vulcan, Soval's journey toward understanding humans. T'Pol's closure on her relationship with her mother.
How about "plot ideas" and "plot details"? Details are always going to have more holes than a swiss cheese factory, but the main ideas told can hold interest more than the details.
How characters interact to the plot's proceedings is always going to be more interesting than just soap opera. Nobody cares if some officer shared saliva with a commander, though his being the age of her father didn't really get brought up too much, the idea of her going back (thanks to whittled down exposition from Guinan) was more compelling, and what it led to in later episodes - even if the later episodes did nothing with what's a pretty cool paradoxical concept in the first place.
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