"Torment of Destiny" Star Trek New Voyages

[MCKurland]

A few more recent droppings:

Some Guards/Extras from Yonada:

Spock, Kirk, and Commodore Bob Wesley:

Guest star Richard Hatch with Dr. McCoy (Jeff Bond) and Natira, High Priestess of the People of Yonada (Becky Wood):

This is killing me! Will the episode ever be finished?!

 

[MCKurland]

Lol. Backstabbing? No. Not backstabbing. Owners of the property.

Does it matter? They're figuratively spitting on Gene Roddenberry's grave, and only caring about money.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Does it matter? They're figuratively spitting on Gene Roddenberry's grave, and only caring about money.

Yeah, because of course Roddenberry never cared about money.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Does it matter? They're figuratively spitting on Gene Roddenberry's grave, and only caring about money.

Are you kidding me? Gene cared A LOT about money. A LOT.
He slapped lyrics on the theme song so he could get a cut.
He produced copies of the IDIC so he could sell them at conventions.
Those are the things off the top of my head.
Star Trek wasn't a charity to Roddenberry. It was a money train for him as well as CBS and Paramount. Let's not put some higher moral purpose on Roddenberry....

 

[Philip Guyott]

I thought Gene was cremated?

If I recall, James and his team put huge sums of their own money in producing non-profit fan films. They produced films for us fans for years. If they are now making money through working with CBS (as opposed to working against CBS), then I don't see the problem. It means the sets can be preserved and enjoyed by fans for years to come and they can support others in making fan productions. I wan't to see their last episodes as much as any fan, but not at the expense of the breakdown of their relationship with CBS. It is in our (the fans) best interest for this relationship to be maintained.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

But isn't that at the expense of fans who donated money to see those episodes completed?

 

[Philip Guyott]

But isn't that at the expense of fans who donated money to see those episodes completed?

As someone who donated money to see their last episodes made, I understand the difficult position New Voyages, indeed any fan production is in. I also understood the risks. Furthermore I don't want to see anyone get sued for what is at the end of they day, just a fan film.

 

[Maurice]

Any fan group that accepted donations to help make a film should do their damnedest to get said film released. That's one (of several) reasons I really pushed to finish "The Tressaurian Intersection".

 

[Philip Guyott]

That's one (of several) reasons I really pushed to finish "The Tressaurian Intersection".

And we are forever grateful to you for having done that. However, was the Tressaurian intersection not realised long before the Axanar Lawsuit and the Fan Film Guidelines? Would you have still pushed for your production to have been released, in the current climate?

Perhaps you would have, but we must take into consideration that NV decision not to continue production of their fan films was made during the Axanar lawsuit. Considering that at one time NV had a fairly close relationship with Alec Peters you can't blame them for wanting to keep their heads down. Whilst the Axanar lawsuit has now ended, the fact of the matter is that if Torment of Destiny were released today in its current format it would be in violation of said guidelines. Granted, we have not seen CBS take action against other fan productions as yet, but the risk of getting sued is very real.

I have now come around to Jame's thinking that when John Van Citters talked about the guidelines not being retroactive it was in response to a question concerning fan productions that had already been released prior to the guidelines. He said nothing about fan films that were still in production at the time. Many fan producers have sought legal advice and have chosen not to risk it. As disappointed as I am as a fan, I understand.

I am in complete agreement with you that any fan group that accepted donations to help make a film should do their damnedest to get said film released - but not at any cost.

We must not blame James for not releasing the final episodes. Blame Alec Peters.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Any fan group that accepted donations to help make a film should do their damnedest to get said film released. That's one (of several) reasons I really pushed to finish "The Tressaurian Intersection".

Words could never convey the admiration and appreciation I have for the efforts of all involved in that project, including yours. Thank you.

 

[Maurice]

First off I'm not blaming anyone. I simply stated my feelings on the matter of taking money and failing to deliver, and that was a broad statement and not pointed at NV specifically.

Had the guidelines comes out while TTI was in post I've had contacted Van Citters and discussed it with him, then proceeded based on the results of that.

STC seems to have gotten a waiver/green light to wrap up. I'd image NV could have done the same, assuming that not continuing wasn't a requirement of their set tour licensing deal.

 

[Barbreader]

And we are forever grateful to you for having done that. However, was the Tressaurian intersection not realised long before the Axanar Lawsuit and the Fan Film Guidelines? Would you have still pushed for your production to have been released, in the current climate?

Perhaps you would have, but we must take into consideration that NV decision not to continue production of their fan films was made during the Axanar lawsuit. Considering that at one time NV had a fairly close relationship with Alec Peters you can't blame them for wanting to keep their heads down. Whilst the Axanar lawsuit has now ended, the fact of the matter is that if Torment of Destiny were released today in its current format it would be in violation of said guidelines. Granted, we have not seen CBS take action against other fan productions as yet, but the risk of getting sued is very real.

I have now come around to Jame's thinking that when John Van Citters talked about the guidelines not being retroactive it was in response to a question concerning fan productions that had already been released prior to the guidelines. He said nothing about fan films that were still in production at the time. Many fan producers have sought legal advice and have chosen not to risk it. As disappointed as I am as a fan, I understand.

I am in complete agree with you that any fan group that accepted donations to help make a film should do their damnedest to get said film released - but not at any cost.

We must not blame James for not releasing the final episodes. Blame Alec Peters.

The fan film guidelines were released full of comments that sounded a lot like what James Cawley had been saying for a few years about how fan films weren't fun anymore, etc. Yes, CBS sued Alec Peters, and yes I was very annoyed about the studio, but the guidelines were never just about Axanar. Axanar wasn't a series but the guidelines forbade series. So no, I'm not going to "Blame Alec Peters" In fact, since you said to NOT Blame James, who took my money to finish films he is not finishing in accordance with an agreement he chose to sign with CBS (films in the can are permitted to be completed under the guidelines, so I have to assume his reason to not finish them is in his tour agreement) yes, I will blame James. James was tired of making fan films, angry that some people thought his work was outshined by Continues, paraphrased by CBS when they issued the guidelines, I absolutely do blame James. He is like a father who drowns his own children when his wife pays attention to them when he thinks she should be paying attention to him. Don't blame the father because his wife was not attentive enough? Yeah, I do blame the father. 100%. And more so since I never contributed to most of the 'competitive' fan films and DID contribute to New Voyages. He didn't like how the fan film community he had fathered was treating him, and he did what he could to bring it down. He had the ear of CBS, and their comments showed that they were listening to him when they issued the guidelines.

 

[Philip Guyott]

First off I'm not blaming anyone. I simply stated my feelings on the matter of taking money and failing to deliver, and that was a broad statement and not pointed at NV specifically.

Had the guidelines comes out while TTI was in post I've had contacted Van Citters and discussed it with him, then proceeded based on the results of that.

STC seems to have gotten a waiver/green light to wrap up. I'd image NV could have done the same, assuming that not continuing wasn't a requirement of their set tour licensing deal.

Fair enough. I had read your comment in context of other comments made by people in this thread and did not realise it was a general statement. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

The fan film guidelines were released full of comments that sounded a lot like what James Cawley had been saying for a few years about how fan films weren't fun anymore, etc. Yes, CBS sued Alec Peters, and yes I was very annoyed about the studio, but the guidelines were never just about Axanar. Axanar wasn't a series but the guidelines forbade series. So no, I'm not going to "Blame Alec Peters" In fact, since you said to NOT Blame James, who took my money to finish films he is not finishing in accordance with an agreement he chose to sign with CBS (films in the can are permitted to be completed under the guidelines, so I have to assume his reason to not finish them is in his tour agreement) yes, I will blame James. James was tired of making fan films, angry that some people thought his work was outshined by Continues, paraphrased by CBS when they issued the guidelines, I absolutely do blame James. He is like a father who drowns his own children when his wife pays attention to them when he thinks she should be paying attention to him. Don't blame the father because his wife was not attentive enough? Yeah, I do blame the father. 100%. And more so since I never contributed to most of the 'competitive' fan films and DID contribute to New Voyages. He didn't like how the fan film community he had fathered was treating him, and he did what he could to bring it down. He had the ear of CBS, and their comments showed that they were listening to him when they issued the guidelines.

To be clear, you are...

...not going to "Blame Alec Peters"

Well OK then.

 

[Ronald Held]

Since the post production is being done by people in their spare time, it is unclear if more than one more episode will be released.

 

[Maurice]

To be fair the detractors of Cawley's group they have something of a history of abandoning projects, be it a few NV episodes and vingettes, Wild Wild West or Buck Rogers. I am sure that someone could make a good case for letting go of each of these, but it is a bit of a pattern.

 

[MikeH92467]

To be fair the detractors of Cawley's group they have something of a history of abandoning projects, be it a few NV episodes and vingettes, Wild Wild West or Buck Rogers. I am sure that someone could make a good case for letting go of each of these, but it is a bit of a pattern.

Of course, it is a reminder that putting shows together is damn difficult. Too many people just figure they can say "hey kids, let's put on a show!" and it will happen. Getting a show completed is an amazing accomplishment. Not being able to get a show finished is often (in my opinion) simply a case where someone's reach exceeds their grasp.

 

[Ronald Held]

I believe that what I heard from Mr. Cawley yesterday, there will be no new episodes released.

 

[Maurice]

Of course, it is a reminder that putting shows together is damn difficult. Too many people just figure they can say "hey kids, let's put on a show!" and it will happen. Getting a show completed is an amazing accomplishment. Not being able to get a show finished is often (in my opinion) simply a case where someone's reach exceeds their grasp.

For your first few films, maybe. But at some point you learn how to finish what you start, or not start what you can't finish. Reach exceeding your grasp is only an excuse if you fail to learn how long your arms are.

 

[Phoenix219]

At this point, and not to sound like an unprincipled prick, but I can only hope that someone hacks, steals, bootlegs or pirates whatever unreleased stuff is around, out of respect for those who put their hard work, time, effort and money into the productions.....

 

[CorporalCaptain]

At this point, and not to sound like an unprincipled prick, but I can only hope that someone hacks, steals, bootlegs or pirates whatever unreleased stuff is around, out of respect for those who put their hard work, time, effort and money into the productions.....

Are you speaking on behalf of one or more of those hard-workers at their request or are you one of them, or are you just presuming to know what their interests are and how they'd like them expressed? Or are you advocating bootlegging for your own personal reasons, such as that you simply believe you are entitled to view the footage, and it has nothing to do with it being done "out of respect " for any of the workers?