Jake Sisko - Completely Unlikeable

[Qonundrum]

Jake played a believable, human child growing up in the semi- perfect 24th century. I like him.
OTOH Wesley Crusher was the Lassie of TNG

Wesley Crusher was more a "Mary Sue", or "Marty Stu" who feel that the same term cannot be used for everyone fitting the trope. A Mary Sue trope could do anything as needed to save the day. People say that of Picard as well, but when it's a teenager being written uncharacteristically like an adult with all the adults being written as third graders to make the teenager look "brilliant" as a result, it's safe to say nobody's going to buy into the story, much less relate to or - even more importantly - look up to any of the characters as a result. One of the better examples of this is "Datalore": A story with great potential but needed at least a second draft, if not a first draft, making it to the filming stage.

Jake and Ben often have far more realistic dialogue than the Crushers had, never mind Wesley being kid genius trope and all.

Jake and Ben even pretty much come across as the idyllic single parent/child relationship. In part partly because of the Crushers' less-than-developed relationship. The chemistry between Cirroc and Avery seems a bit more robust compared to Wil and Gates as well. Acting is one thing but there's something intangible yet tangible about on-screen chemistry that takes writing, no matter how good, and makes it great.

Having said that, Wesley is far more watchable in seasons 2 and 3. Bev almost had the EQ that the rest of the bridge crew lacked when it came to helping others and yet she seemed more ignorant of her own son (I'm trying to be objective, I'm more of a Pulaski fan.) Who could blame him for "Evolution" when he explodes over her not being there, which was extreme I agree, but she seems cognizant and even admits how she's there now. Their relationship improves from there on (And, yeah, Wes was unfair since she hadn't been there but the in-universe canon is that she left for a seemingly better job and he had issues subconsciously.)

 

[Qonundrum]

Jake played a believable, human child growing up in the semi- perfect 24th century. I like him.
OTOH Wesley Crusher was the Lassie of TNG

Except nobody ever listened to Wesley the way everyone listened to Lassie because everyone on that show knew how to speak Scotch Collie... or drank a lot of scotch and could pass for understanding all the barking that went on.

 

[DonIago]

"Shut up, Lassie!"

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

My problem with Jake was that he was more rebellious and bratty toward adults. He was worse than Wesley Crusher that aspect, unlike people who I disagree with.

However, he was an integral part in the Deep Space Nine story.

 

[spinagogue]

PS- No surprise that in "The Reckoning" Jake volunteered to be the instrument of the Kosst Amojan. (-;

 

[Bad Thoughts]

My problem with Jake was that he was more rebellious and bratty toward adults. He was worse than Wesley Crusher that aspect, unlike people who I disagree with.

However, he was an integral part in the Deep Space Nine story.

Most rebellious thing Jake did: stay behind to report war.
Most rebellious thing Wesley did (tie): performed illegal maneuver (then lied about it) and subverted Federation negotations.

The jury isn't out long on this one.

PS- No surprise that in "The Reckoning" Jake volunteered to be the instrument of the Kosst Amojan. (-;

Volunteer?

 

[DonIago]

^You neglected to mention that Wesley's illegal maneuver directly led to the death of one of his squadmates.

I don't think Jake did anything nearly that irresponsible.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Yeah, Jake wasn't a willing vessel any more than Keiko O'Brien was.

 

[Neetza512]

I think he's believable as a teen. He's a good kid (he tries to help Nog in anyway possible) and has some actual talents of his own rather than being Sisko's Mini Me, but he's also a real teen. They tend to be twerps at that age due to their brains still being in the process of forming.

 

[Jayson1]

Wesley Crusher was more a "Mary Sue", or "Marty Stu" who feel that the same term cannot be used for everyone fitting the trope. A Mary Sue trope could do anything as needed to save the day. People say that of Picard as well, but when it's a teenager being written uncharacteristically like an adult with all the adults being written as third graders to make the teenager look "brilliant" as a result, it's safe to say nobody's going to buy into the story, much less relate to or - even more importantly - look up to any of the characters as a result. One of the better examples of this is "Datalore": A story with great potential but needed at least a second draft, if not a first draft, making it to the filming stage.

Jake and Ben often have far more realistic dialogue than the Crushers had, never mind Wesley being kid genius trope and all.

Jake and Ben even pretty much come across as the idyllic single parent/child relationship. In part partly because of the Crushers' less-than-developed relationship. The chemistry between Cirroc and Avery seems a bit more robust compared to Wil and Gates as well. Acting is one thing but there's something intangible yet tangible about on-screen chemistry that takes writing, no matter how good, and makes it great.

Having said that, Wesley is far more watchable in seasons 2 and 3. Bev almost had the EQ that the rest of the bridge crew lacked when it came to helping others and yet she seemed more ignorant of her own son (I'm trying to be objective, I'm more of a Pulaski fan.) Who could blame him for "Evolution" when he explodes over her not being there, which was extreme I agree, but she seems cognizant and even admits how she's there now. Their relationship improves from there on (And, yeah, Wes was unfair since she hadn't been there but the in-universe canon is that she left for a seemingly better job and he had issues subconsciously.)

The problem with Wesley Crusher is I think he was supose to be a "Mary Stu" character for Gene Roddenberry. I've heard writers even talk about how they had problems with the character because he was the "Roddenberry" stand-in for the show. Also one of the reasons they couldn't let him leave Starfleet unless they gave him a even higher purpose.


Jason

 

[Voth commando1]

Did not like him at all. Painfully naive and the way he handled dominion occupation and the Intendant Kira shooting Mirror Jennifer bespeaks a young man who has lived an extremely sheltered and comfortable life. Has never known either malice or adversity and that just isn't appealing for me.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Has never known either malice or adversity and that just isn't appealing for me.

He lost his mother in the middle of a Borg attack in the first episode of the series.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Voth commando1]

He lost his mother in the middle of a Borg attack in the first episode of the series.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

He didn't understand that when he chose to remain on Dominion occupied DS9 that free speech wasn't allowed.

After the intendant shot Mirror Jennifer in Shattered Mirror he asked "she needs a doctor" literally begging for help from the person that just shot the person he was asking for help for.

And I wouldn't the say the Borg are malicious-dangerous but not malicious.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

^???

 

[Balok's Decoy]

I think Jake is extremely likeable. One of the better child/adolescent actors in the franchise. They actually gave him interesting stories, a character arc, and believable relationships with his dad and other officers on DS9.

 

[Voth commando1]

^???

I referenced every episode from which my opinion on the character came.

He is naive and painfully unable to understand that the universe is not a gentle place where alternate universe mother and son can re-unite, he doesn't understand the inherent malice and cruelty of someone like the Intendant Kira who would shoot him in a heartbeat if he wasn't Sisko's son.

He doesn't understand the dominion is an authoritarian power that isn't going to tolerate seditious speech or action. I was surprised they didn't kill him when he remained to begin with. The only reason IU I can figure they didn't is because they didn't want to offend the Bajorans who of course loved their emissary. Heck even Weyoun calls him naive.

It's a childish innocence and a desire to believe in good for everyone and that is understandable but Jake son of a war captain who lost his mother to a hostile alien force would be a little more worldly wise.

 

[Sakonna]

It's a childish innocence and a desire to believe in good for everyone and that is understandable but Jake son of a war captain who lost his mother to a hostile alien force would be a little more worldly wise.

It's interesting, it strikes me how that sort of describes the Trek ethos as a whole. All of that idealistic striving to be true to your principles and do the right thing even when it's going to blow up the ship etc.

 

[Voth commando1]

It's interesting, it strikes me how that sort of describes the Trek ethos as a whole. All of that idealistic striving to be true to your principles and do the right thing even when it's going to blow up the ship etc.

One can be idealistic without being naive.

And wasn't DS9 supposed to the be cynical Trek in any case?

And Jake isn't being true to any principles he remains on DS9 for no understandable reason other than the inherent risk of the action. Not only that but he isn't smart enough to understand that he can't write freely-he can't talk about Dominion "occupiers" even Weyoun tells him "look this isn't how things work, you can't use certain language." He chose to stay behind enemy lines as a journalist, yet didn't grasp that he couldn't write as if he was in San Francisco.

He asks Intendant Kira for help just as she is about kill him. He is so blinded by his desire to have his mother back(an understandable desire in every sense) he doesn't get that no not everyone is gentle and reasonable. Intendant Kira had just killed a child-Nog even after he helped her escape. The only reason the intendant spared his life is because she obviously enjoyed his father's company(among other things) if he wasn't Sisko's kid she would have shot him without a second thought. Even after she makes it clear she will expect some sort of repayment for her mercy in the future.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Post-season 3, I found Jake Sisko outstandingly annoying and rather unlikeable as a human being. To the point that it almost defies belief that Captain Sisko, caring as he was, wouldn't have disowned him as a son. (Ok, that's hyperbole.)

Some characters are meant to be unlikeable, of course. But I don't the writers intended Jake to be such a twerp. I hate to say this too, but he couldn't have been so unlikeable without Cirroc Lofton being a bona fide terrible actor too.

I love DS9. Have watched the whole series probably 5 times.

Anyone else despise Jake Sisko? :-)

SPIN

I liked him. What's not to like about him?
He was so cute in the first season who could not have liked him?
But I liked him all the way through the series.
I don't think the guy was that good of an actor, but I still found him very believable for the most part.
Also I hate it when they have actors that are supposed to be related and they look nothing alike. At least they had Sisko and son being believable as being related.

Sidko and his father, not so much. The only part that may have made it possible that granhpa Sisko could have had a son and grandson as good looking as those two was that they got ALL their looks from the grandmother's side of the family.

 

[Amaris]

I liked Jake. Good kid. Sure, there were times when he was a bit whiny, or rebellious, but I don't know a single teenager who hasn't been whiny or rebellious at some point. Jake's smart, and he knows he's smart, and sometimes that gets him in trouble, because like all smart kids, he thinks he knows the system, and then the system surprises the hell out of him due to his inexperience. He's a complex character, and seems like a genuine, real human being. I look at Jake, and I see him growing older and wiser, with the capacity for leadership somewhat like his father, but in softer ways.

He's a good egg.