The New Klingons

[Michael]

^ Can't say that's what I took away from these interviews. I think they are just a specific group of Klingons shaving their head. I don't think they are saying all Klingons have now and always had no hair. But those are just my two cents. I guess we will see at some point.

 

[Roald]

http://www.treknews.net/2017/08/03/star-trek-discovery-cast-klingon-houses-stlv/
"We will see all 24 houses and the leaders among them”

https://trekmovie.com/2017/08/03/st...ar-trek-discovery-klingons-are-bald-and-more/
"They started with designing Klingon skulls. Page explained that DSC’s Klingons are bald because of these heightened senses on the top of their heads. The bald look was also a mandate from Fuller."

https://trekmovie.com/2017/07/17/showrunner-explains-new-look-for-star-trek-discovery-klingons/
"In the different versions of Trek, the Klingons have never been completely consistent"
"Hopefully, fans will become more invested in the characters than worried about the redesign."


Basically, if you add all that together, you have:
1) We will see "all" 24 klingon houses - aka at least one member of every klingon family there is
2) All klingons on DIS will be bald

That leads to the conclusion -> klingons are now totally ret-conned to not have or ever had hair (because of the evolutionary idea behind the baldness). Which is pretty much indescribably stupid, in a universe where Worf and pretty much any other klingon existed, with various different looks, hairstyles and ridges.

If indeed so, I agree, it would be unfortunate (but in no way reason enough to write off an entire series)... how I like to think about now is that in this timeframe it's more of a fashion to go bald; just like in human history it was in fashion to wear large white curly wigs at one point. I do really hope there will be a TOS Augment Klingon shown during DSC's run, but if not, I'm probably still gonna enjoy the hell out of this series!

 

[Rahul]

^ Can't say that's what I took away from these interviews. I think they are just a specific group of Klingons shaving their head. I don't think they are saying all Klingons have now and always had no hair. But those are just my two cents. I guess we will see at some point.

I hope in the end it turns out this way. But if it does so, most likely because they changed it retroactively because of the massive fan-backlash against the new look.

But the Interviews are pretty unambiguous:
The klingons are bald, by decree of Fuller, because of their evolutionary development, which applies to all klingons.

But dear god, do I hope this is just a shaving issue!
And that we'll have some smelly, bearded, long-haired klingons with bush-y eyebrows somewhere in the background...

 

[cultcross]

Why does Klingon hair matter so much? Wouldn't be the first alien look retcon - the universe didn't fall apart because none of the Trill on DS9 had bumpy foreheads.

 

[Kor]

If the entire Klingon species is supposed to be inherently bald in this incarnation of Trek, then they've already contradicted themselves with the set/prop design because the iconography includes carvings of Klingons with hair.

How about the Sash? Do any DSC Klingons have that yet? Maybe a bone sash? I think that shows up in every series.

(I know it's called something else, but I don't remember)

A baldric, I believe.

Kor

 

[Rahul]

Why does Klingon hair matter so much? Wouldn't be the first alien look retcon - the universe didn't fall apart because none of the Trill on DS9 had bumpy foreheads.

It's a disrespect to the klingon characters we already did have - Worf, Martok, Chang, Gorkon, B'Elanna, Kor,...

I wouldn't mind it if they completely ret-conned for example the Sheliak, or the Paklets or some other, lesser known species. But the klingons - and especially the klingon characters, are a central element of Star Trek. Ret-conning that and them out of existence is a disservices towards fans of these respective characters.

I would get equally annoyed if, for example, they decided Vulcans aren't logical anymore, or Orions never were green. Or if Batman and Superman suddenly started killing people... (sorry, wrong board!). It just begs the question of why doing something, if you don't want to do that thing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's a disrespect to the klingon characters we already did have - Worf, Martok, Chang, Gorkon, B'Elanna, Kor,...

I wouldn't mind it if they completely ret-conned for example the Sheliak, or the Paklets or some other, lesser known species. But the klingons - and especially the klingon characters, are a central element of Star Trek. Ret-conning that and them out of existence is a disservices towards fans of these respective characters.

I would get equally annoyed if, for example, they decided Vulcans aren't logical anymore, or Orions never were green. Or if Batman and Superman suddenly started killing people... (sorry, wrong board!). It just begs the question of why doing something, if you don't want to do that thing.

Not sure how changing the make up retconns the characters out of existence.

 

[Fateor]

It's a disrespect to the klingon characters we already did have - Worf, Martok, Chang, Gorkon, B'Elanna, Kor,...

I wouldn't mind it if they completely ret-conned for example the Sheliak, or the Paklets or some other, lesser known species. But the klingons - and especially the klingon characters, are a central element of Star Trek. Ret-conning that and them out of existence is a disservices towards fans of these respective characters.

I would get equally annoyed if, for example, they decided Vulcans aren't logical anymore, or Orions never were green. Or if Batman and Superman suddenly started killing people... (sorry, wrong board!). It just begs the question of why doing something, if you don't want to do that thing.

Also it invalidates pretty much the entire TNG Khaless episode since the story of how Khaless forged the first bat'leth is pretty integral to that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Also it invalidates pretty much the entire TNG Khalass episode since the story of how Khalass forged the first bat'leth is pretty integral to that.

It's just one episode. Not the first time something in an episode has been over written.

 

[Fateor]

It's just one episode. Not the first time something in an episode has been over written.

This isn't Spock's Brain or that episode of Voyager where Janeway turned into a Gekko.

It was actually a good episode and pretty integral to shaping Klingon culture and history.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This isn't Spock's Brain or that episode of Voyager where Janeway turned into a Gekko.

It was actually a good episode and pretty integral to shaping Klingon culture and history.

No, it's just an episode of a TV show about a bunch of fictional aliens. Klingon "culture and history" will be fine with or with out it. Frankly it's a detail about the Klingons I had totally forgot about. I suspect most people have as well. It's just not that important.

 

[Rahul]

No, it's just an episode of a TV show about a bunch of fictional aliens. Klingon "culture and history" will be fine with or with out it. Frankly it's a detail about the Klingons I had totally forgot about. I suspect most people have as well. It's just not that important.

You can't dictate other people what part of a television show is important and what not.
"Amok Time" was pretty important for Trekkies, because it was their first view to Spock's homeworld. Spock's Brain not so much.

Turns out, klingons are pretty important to many Trekkies. Who would have thought? That a species for which an entire language has been developed and that has countless characters, including two main characters, and a history that's mostly consistent since the sixties is important to some fans?

 

[Longinus]

I understand that some people don't care about this Klingon hair issue, and some care about it very much. I have to admit, that I care about it quite a bit, as the Klingons are my favourite Star Trek aliens. I've seen this come up on many different forums, and my observation is that the number of people who do not like the bald Klingons is not insignificant.

And I have to wonder, is it really worth it? Is this really such an amazing design, that is worth the displeasure of many existing fans (regardless of whether their displeasure is reasonable) and confusion among casual viewers? Would it have ruined their bold vision had they given these Klingons eyebrows, and at least given some background extras some beards and hair? Would anyone in such a situation been unhappy that not all the Klingons were bald?

Like it or not, when creating a series in existing franchise, especially when stating it is set in the prime universe in the existing continuity, it creates certain expectations, and drastic changes will cause backlash. When redesigning stuff in such a situation, it might be wise to try to maintain at least some semblance of visual continuity, even if the minutiae wouldn't exactly match. The prop team seemed to perfectly understand this, and I really have not seen complaints about the redesigns of phasers, communicators and tricorders. They are upgraded to modern standards while keeping as much of the style and feel of the original as possible. What happened with the Klingons is pretty much the opposite.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You can't dictate other people what part of a television show is important and what not.
"Amok Time" was pretty important for Trekkies, because it was their first view to Spock's homeworld. Spock's Brain not so much.

Turns out, klingons are pretty important to many Trekkies. Who would have thought? That a species for which an entire language has been developed and that has countless characters, including two main characters, and a history that's mostly consistent since the sixties is important to some fans?

Didn't say Klingons aren't important, just that the "trivia" isn't. Nor am I dictating any thing, just giving my take. The "dictating" will be done by those in charge. Just as it's always been.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Look, for all we know, these bald Klingons are just another result of the Augment virus we never saw. And still, so are the smoothies from TOS.

The baldies are in power at the moment and maybe the smoothies were dishonored for some reason and are relegated to cleaning latrines somewhere and we don't see them anytime soon (or even in DSC at all).

Then, the baldies we're seeing now lose the war, bringing dishonor on themselves and in another 5-10 years, the smoothies are back in power.

By TNG, the Augment virus has run it's course and we're back to the original Klingons we saw on ENT.

 

[Fateor]

I understand that some people don't care about this Klingon hair issue, and some care about it very much. I have to admit, that I care about it quite a bit, as the Klingons are my favourite Star Trek aliens. I've seen this come up on many different forums, and my observation is that the number of people who do not like the bald Klingons is not insignificant.

And I have to wonder, is it really worth it? Is this really such an amazing design, that is worth the displeasure of many existing fans (regardless of whether their displeasure is reasonable) and confusion among casual viewers? Would it have ruined their bold vision had they given these Klingons eyebrows, and at least given some background extras some beards and hair? Would anyone in such a situation been unhappy that not all the Klingons were bald?

Like it or not, when creating a series in existing franchise, especially when stating it is set in the prime universe in the existing continuity, it creates certain expectations, and drastic changes will cause backlash. When redesigning stuff in such a situation, it might be wise to try to maintain at least some semblance of visual continuity, even if the minutiae wouldn't exactly match. The prop team seemed to perfectly understand this, and I really have not seen complaints about the redesigns of phasers, communicators and tricorders. They are upgraded to modern standards while keeping as much of the style and feel of the original as possible. What happened with the Klingons is pretty much the opposite.

You really hit the nose on the head here.

It also showcases why a lot of fans are loosing faith in Discovery even before seeing a full episode. Something like you described would have cost them next to nothing, and yet they don't even seem to care.

 

[Roald]

You really hit the nose on the head here.

It also showcases why a lot of fans are loosing faith in Discovery even before seeing a full episode. Something like you described would have cost them next to nothing, and yet they don't even seem to care.

'They'..? This was Fuller's idea wasn't it? As I recall, most fans that are so negative about DSC name his departure as one of the reasons.......

 

[Ovation]

You really hit the nose on the head here.

It also showcases why a lot of fans are loosing faith in Discovery even before seeing a full episode. Something like you described would have cost them next to nothing, and yet they don't even seem to care.

I understand that some people don't care about this Klingon hair issue, and some care about it very much. I have to admit, that I care about it quite a bit, as the Klingons are my favourite Star Trek aliens. I've seen this come up on many different forums, and my observation is that the number of people who do not like the bald Klingons is not insignificant.

And I have to wonder, is it really worth it? Is this really such an amazing design, that is worth the displeasure of many existing fans (regardless of whether their displeasure is reasonable) and confusion among casual viewers? Would it have ruined their bold vision had they given these Klingons eyebrows, and at least given some background extras some beards and hair? Would anyone in such a situation been unhappy that not all the Klingons were bald?

Like it or not, when creating a series in existing franchise, especially when stating it is set in the prime universe in the existing continuity, it creates certain expectations, and drastic changes will cause backlash. When redesigning stuff in such a situation, it might be wise to try to maintain at least some semblance of visual continuity, even if the minutiae wouldn't exactly match. The prop team seemed to perfectly understand this, and I really have not seen complaints about the redesigns of phasers, communicators and tricorders. They are upgraded to modern standards while keeping as much of the style and feel of the original as possible. What happened with the Klingons is pretty much the opposite.

Actually, like it or not, no artistic endeavour (commercial or otherwise) OWES statisfaction to its intended audience. The choices made by the people in charge are theirs to make. They can hope it satisfies the audience (indeed, it's rather rare for the opposite), just as the audience hopes it will be satisfied. But hope does not equal entitlement (on either side). Artists are free to take chances and offer whatever it is they wish for public consumption. They are not guaranteed success (and, typically, they are well aware of this reality). Audiences are not guaranteed satisfaction (a concept that seems to escape a greater percentage of audiences than artists). The only thing the audience is owed is an experience (literary, visual, musical, etc.). That's it. That's what one gets for the price of entry. Satisfaction is self-selected.

No one is compelled to like the new direction Trek is taking. Conversely--and this is something a few, albeit vociferous, people online forget--Trek is not compelled to satisfy any particular audience member's desire. Now, in commercial art, the financial backers expect some sort of return for their investment. But, if the show has progressed this far into its production, in the manner it has chosen to adopt, it would seem the backers have a reasonable degree of faith they will see that return on investment. But even they are not OWED a successful return. ALL investments have a degree of risk. There are no guarantees of satisfaction anywhere in such endeavours. Never have been, so it is...illogical...to expect such guarantees now.

 

[Fateor]

'They'..? This was Fuller's idea wasn't it? As I recall, most fans that are so negative about DSC name his departure as one of the reasons.......

You have no idea how a Television production works do you?

Changes like what was done to the Klingons have to go through a stupidly large number of people before they get the okay.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You have no idea how a Television production works do you?

Changes like what was done to the Klingons have to go through a stupidly large number of people before they get the okay.

I've a feeling you don't .