The sun on the right side of the image might be hiding another curved part. It could be a full bat'leth.
The New Klingons
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
- Start date
No way it's a Bat'leth, that thing looks like it would fall apart if someone tried to block with it.
Heck look at where you have to hold it, your fingers would get chopped off.
The Bat'leth has always been a really unpractical weapon. I have no problems with more variations thereof. Although the classical Bat'leth design is iconic.
I'm still much more annoyed at the lack of beards and hair...
Yeah, they look shiny, I really like it. I watched a few minutes of Generations the other day, and even with movie makeup time and budget, the Klingons still looked powdery and plastered on. Much prefer this new makeup.
RAMA
I'm always a fan of more variety in my aliens. But making all klingons now bald, they simply switched one cliché for another, arguibly even worse.
I would have NO problem at all with the new main-bad guy klingons being bald. IF they also showed klingons with varying hairstyles as stand-ins for other houses. But it increasingly looks like they intend to show "all" 24 klingon houses, and ALL of them suddenly are hairless. Which is not only stupid, but also makes no sense and is in direct contrast to their "prime universe" claim, in which the klingons weren't just already pretty well defined, but with Worf had one of the most iconic aliens in Star Trek at all.
Ironically the producers didn't dare to change the look of Vulcans at all (Sarek looks pretty much like every other Vulcan), because of how well known Spock's looks are. For Worf, they weren't so generous. And now they pretend Worf (or B'Elanna for that matter) never had hair. Yeah.. That won't go over too too well.
I really don't see how its worse, but I going to take that as an individual mileage will vary. It isn't good or bad to me-just different.
Secondly, I'm still thinking we will see Klingons with hair, but I suspect the marketing is using promotional material that will A) generate conversation (Which it is doing
) and B) will be prominently featured in the first episode.Finally, the attitude that they are "pretending Worf or B'Elanna never had hair" makes zero sense. They are showing Klingons in a specific point in their history. I'd hardly expect them to remain static in fashion or style for 100 years. Also, since the main Klingon leader is trying to unite the 24 houses, it may be a solidarity ritual as part of their renewed sense of unity. Again, context will inform the choice, rather than blanket assumptions of ignoring other Klingon characters.
If we had never seen klingons before, I wouldn't see it at "better" or "worse", just "different". But since we HAVE seen klingons, and all of them had hair (in fact their beards are so iconic, they're part of what makes a klingon design a klingon design), not having hair is a bad choice.
Secondly, I'm still thinking we will see Klingons with hair, but I suspect the marketing is using promotional material that will A) generate conversation (Which it is doing
I would love that to be true, and ALL of my complaints would vanish in that exact moment!
Sadly, the make-up designer stated pretty clearly the new klingons aren't capable of growing hair, by decree of Fuller, and instead now have "sensory ridges" at that place. Which would be a massive retcon.
I surely hope it's not that, and just a design choice for these individual klingons, and that they change that (maybe as an answer to fan backlash) and DO include some klingons with hair in the background later on in DIS.
Again: If the new klingons just 'shaved', as part of some design trend, it wouldn't be a problem at all.
But if they retcon klingons to not be able to grow hair in the first place, we would have a MASSIVE continuity problem with Worf, one of the best known Star Trek aliens we have.
And yeah, we had one in the first place, when klingons got make-up in the first place. But that has been made relatively early on in the franchise, like "James R. Kirk", and it HAD always been a point of massive discourse, ridicule, and even been addressed in-universe on DS9 and ENT. I would not like to add another such continuity problem again.
*ahem*
Guard on the left
Guy on the right
I have a feeling that they will make changes throughout, and may be a place I disagree with Fuller's "decrees."
I don't think it is a continuity problem (yet-that could change) because the Augment virus could be adding in more problems to them, and adjustments are needing to be made. Genetic engineering isn't an exact science in terms of a moving system and what consequences might occur.
Like I said, context is going to make this more clear if it is an actual problem or flows in the story.
*ahem*
Guard on the left
Guy on the right
Congratulations. All of them have beards, except one(!) background dude. And even he has hair, proving the point klingons could have hair, and just decided to shave it (like Chang). You just proved my point
God I hope they change that before they show as "all" of the 24 houses. As long as it's implied there are different klingons still running around, I have no problem with hairless klingons in the foreground.
The problem really only starts as soon as they show conclusively that all klingons sudenly aren't capable of growing hair anymore/all of them have those weird egg-heads and ridges and there aren't any smooth ones running around.
I should clarify that I am responding to your point that the beards are so iconic that it's part of the Klingon look:Congratulations. All of them have beards, except one(!) background dude. And even he has hair, proving the point klingons could have hair, and just decided to shave it (like Chang). You just proved my point
Chang is probably the best example of a Klingon not defined by his hair.
Could be an inbreeding thing. Again, genetics are a funny thing, and perhaps the leadership of the great houses are so inbred (see European royalty for real world precedence) that it is starting to show through.
Again, I highly, highly, doubt that this will extend to all Klingons, now and forevermore, being unable to grow hair. Not only is that ridiculously shortsighted from a writing perspective, but what does that gain? Well, besides generating ridiculous fan speculation
The very subtle facial hair, his knotted head-hair, and the ridges are pretty much the definite give-away that this dude indeed is a klingon. He has the same iconic look - bushy eyebrows included - just way toned down. But still there.
Could be an inbreeding thing. Again, genetics are a funny thing, and perhaps the leadership of the great houses are so inbred (see European royalty for real world precedence) that it is starting to show through.
Again, I highly, highly, doubt that this will extend to all Klingons, now and forevermore, being unable to grow hair. Not only is that ridiculously shortsighted from a writing perspective, but what does that gain? Well, besides generating ridiculous fan speculation
I can see why you think that, because it would be stupid (ALL klingons suddenly never having had hair at all). Nevertheless, that's exactly what the producers and make-up designers have confirmed at the moment. That's exactly where the criticism comes from.
Yes, it is still there, but it is different than what had come before, indicating that Klingons have a variety of appearances.
I like DSC Klingons because it offers more variety, rather than the monolithic (such that it was) emphasis on "beards" and "honor."
Here's what we don't have-the story reason, the in-universe explanation, as to why. The production team can say all they want-I'll criticize the story presented on screen.
We're pretty much on the same page here - I like more variety. I loved TUC for that. But retconning it that ALL klingons ALWAYS are bald is NOT adding variety. It's exchanging one monolithic thing with another one, that is even more limiting variety. And it makes arguibly no sense, considering all the previous characters with hair we already have.
That's the thing though: They intend to do that. They told us so. That "all" 24 houses are represented - e.g. the entirety of klingons, and that ALL of them are incapable of growing hair. That, in fact, the entirety of klingons, including their evolutionary history - never had hair.
Which is a stupid ret-con of epic proportions.
We haven't seen that yet. But all signs point to that we will, and the producers have explicitly told us they intend to do exactly that. So that's the reason we're critizising that now. I sure do hope they will change that before they actually make that an irreversable ret-con, and maybe include some bearded klingons in the background in episode 11 or 12, which are yet to film, when they represent "all" klingons. But the current "official" canon is klingons that don't have and never had hair, even though they are the exact same ones that Shatner-Kirk encountered. Which is stupid.
Source?
I'll still wait and see what actually shows up on screen. If they go forward with it, and not just the leadership, then I'll agree that it is a stupid ret-con.
But, right now, it sounds like all 24 houses being represented doesn't mean that all Klingons have no hair, at least not to me. And, as I said, I highly doubt that it would continue for long, because, from a story and character perspective, it is highly limiting.
Secondly, I'm more interested in what is presented on screen and how that moves forward. Again, I am not drawing the same conclusions as you are, because I don't think they are trying to say "All Klingons have no hair." I really don't see it. Again, could be wrong, and maybe I am missing something, and if so, I'll be wrong. Not the first time, won't be the last.
Finally, I don't think we have official "canon" status on anything, beyond what things look like. We don't have the reason "Why" and I'll wait for the show to find out that, not production team's word of mouth that could change.
http://www.treknews.net/2017/08/03/star-trek-discovery-cast-klingon-houses-stlv/
"We will see all 24 houses and the leaders among them”
https://trekmovie.com/2017/08/03/st...ar-trek-discovery-klingons-are-bald-and-more/
"They started with designing Klingon skulls. Page explained that DSC’s Klingons are bald because of these heightened senses on the top of their heads. The bald look was also a mandate from Fuller."
https://trekmovie.com/2017/07/17/showrunner-explains-new-look-for-star-trek-discovery-klingons/
"In the different versions of Trek, the Klingons have never been completely consistent"
"Hopefully, fans will become more invested in the characters than worried about the redesign."
Basically, if you add all that together, you have:
1) We will see "all" 24 klingon houses - aka at least one member of every klingon family there is
2) All klingons on DIS will be bald
That leads to the conclusion -> klingons are now totally ret-conned to not have or ever had hair (because of the evolutionary idea behind the baldness). Which is pretty much indescribably stupid, in a universe where Worf and pretty much any other klingon existed, with various different looks, hairstyles and ridges.
