KENOBI: The Life. The Legend...The Movie?

[Shaka Zulu]

Im talking about how he treats Ben. They don't interact in the films, but in some of the books and new canon comics, Owen is pretty harsh towards Ben. He's often yelling at him.

There's the story of when Luke and a friend go out and get lost in the wastes, and Kenobi saves them from a dragon. He brings them home safe and sound and Owen flips out and threatens Obi-Wan. Im not sure if this has been retold yet, but this was supposed to be how Luke met Obi-Wan.

Yeah, I understand why he would want to protect Luke, especially from Jedi.

I don't see that; Luke was supposed to be kept by Owen until he was ready to be trained as a Jedi by Ben, yet Owen wrecked the unsaid agreement? That was a contributing factor to his death and Beru's at the hands of Stormtroopers, AFAIK.

And even if Owen was afraid that Luke would go to the Academy, get drafted by the Empire, and then die in its service, that's not a good enough reason to deny him a choice in deciding his future; Luke was destined to do something else with his life (either be an Imperial or be the first of a new batch of Jedi Knights-fortunately he became the latter due to Ben's intervention), not stay on a sandy rock and be a moisture farmer for the rest of his life.

 

[Prax]

You don't see that Owen was mean to Ben; or that Owen wanted to protect Luke Ben's(or any Jedi)influence?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

That was a contributing factor to his death and Beru's at the hands of Stormtroopers, AFAIK.

I'm not following. Can you connect the dots? What did Owen do that made him partially responsible for his and Beru's deaths?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I'm not following. Can you connect the dots? What did Owen do that made him partially responsible for his and Beru's deaths?

Owen should have realized that somebody somewhere higher up in the Empire (Vader or Palpatine) might connect the dots while hunting for any stray Jedi that escaped the purge, figure out that there's a Force-sensitive youth on a backwater planet, and then send spies to figure out where said youth is, then send Stormtroopers to arrest and/or kill him as a threat to the Empire (he was a reasoning man when he was discussing where Threepio and Artoo might have come from in the novelization with Luke at the dinner table, why not this?) Kevin Smith even talks about this somewhat in the latest Cinema Sins video (around 5:26-ish):

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[CorporalCaptain]

Owen should have realized that somebody somewhere higher up in the Empire (Vader or Palpatine) might connect the dots while hunting for any stray Jedi that escaped the purge, figure out that there's a Force-sensitive youth on a backwater planet, and then send spies to figure out where said youth is, then send Stormtroopers to arrest and/or kill him as a threat to the Empire (he was a reasoning man when he was discussing where Threepio and Artoo might have come from in the novelization with Luke at the dinner table, why not this?) Kevin Smith even talks about this somewhat in the latest Cinema Sins video (around 5:26-ish):

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That part of the video was pure bunk, so I'll just pass on the rest of it, thanks.

As far as the issue, Owen innocently buys droids that the Empire wants, which is what leads to his death, and Beru's. By your logic, Owen has only three choices that he should have proactively done years ago, so that the Rebellion won't be poking around: collaborate with Obi-Wan to get him and Luke the hell out of there and away from the farm, collaborate with the Empire and turn his adoptive nephew in, or both. None of those options could be said to be safe, But then, how was he to know he'd innocently buy the droids that the Rebellion sent to look for Obi-Wan? That's rhetorical, because Owen couldn't possibly anticipate that he'd be drawn into the Civil War that way. If that's what it took to get Owen involved, he was being pretty darn careful.

The fact that he didn't turn Luke into the Empire tells us that we really should take him at his word that he was concerned for Luke's safety. The most reasonable conclusion is that Owen did his best to look out for Luke. He took Luke in in the first place. If anything "sealed his fate," that did: love for the grandson of his father's wife. Beru felt the same. Sounds like a pretty good Aunt and Uncle, to me. It's clear based on all evidence that Owen and Beru both understood the risks.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

That part of the video was pure bunk, so I'll just pass on the rest of it, thanks.

Up to you, I was just posting it, is all.

As far as the issue, Owen innocently buys droids that the Empire wants, which is what leads to his death, and Beru's. By your logic, Owen has only three choices that he should have proactively done years ago, so that the Rebellion won't be poking around: collaborate with Obi-Wan to get him and Luke the hell out of there and away from the farm, collaborate with the Empire and turn his adoptive nephew in, or both. None of those options could be said to be safe, But then, how was he to know he'd innocently buy the droids that the Rebellion sent to look for Obi-Wan? That's rhetorical, because Owen couldn't possibly anticipate that he'd be drawn into the Civil War that way. If that's what it took to get Owen involved, he was being pretty darn careful.

I did not talk about 'collaborating' with the Empire or the Alliance; I was talking about Owen keeping Luke for a short while until it was time for him to begin training as a Jedi under Ben. Owen didn't hold up his part of the deal for whatever reasons, making his death and his wife's at the hands of the Empire most likely to happen (a dictatorship can go after anybody for any reason, as seen here on Earth, if a person attracts the attention of said dictatorship.) Owen simply got caught in the Empire's crosshairs by a random act of coincidence (buying two robots wanted by the Empire) but the Empire could have got him, Beru, and Luke any time if it wanted to simply because of who he was the guardian of.

The fact that he didn't turn Luke into the Empire tells us that we really should take him at his word that he was concerned for Luke's safety. The most reasonable conclusion is that Owen did his best to look out for Luke. He took Luke in in the first place. If anything "sealed his fate," that did: love for the grandson of his father's wife. Beru felt the same. Sounds like a pretty good Aunt and Uncle, to me. It's clear based on all evidence that Owen and Beru both understood the risks.

If Owen really loved Luke, he should have known when to let him go; to the person who could help Luke and safeguard him against the Empire the most, Obi-Wan (Ben) Kenobi, who'd been living as a hermit in the Jutland Wastes with no notice for years (except for one Alliance member knowing where he was.) Luke would have been safe, begun his training, plus Owen and Beru would have been safe and off of the Empire's radar. But what happened, happened (and without which, we'd have no story.)

 

[Prax]

Did Owen know that Luke was to be trained as a Jedi? I don't think Ben would have told him that.

He (Ben)probably didn't count on Owen completely banning him from going near Luke.

Edit: I'm sure Owen was nervous when he heard that the droids belonged to Obi-Wan, but there could be many explanations. Maybe Obi Wan used these droids to service his Vaporator, the Jawas stole them, and Owen bought them. Maybe Obi Wan died, and his droids wandered off, etc.

What doesn't make sense is that the Troopers killed Owen and Beru, burned their house down, and staged it as a Tusked raid. Did Owen come out swinging a 2×4? Did Owen yell "Get off my land" and open fire on them? Did Beru also? Why would the Stormtroopers do that?

Vader was probably super curious by all the events of A New Hope:
*Leia hides plans in droid*sends droids to tatooine*droids are traced back to the Lars homestead where his mother died*Obi-Shows up out of no where after 20 years*Obi-Wan, when killed, vanishes into thin air*Force sensitive boy named Skywalker blows up death star in a small starfighter.

If he had half a brain, he would put it all together on his long flight back to civilization after the death star.

 

[The Wormhole]

I was talking about Owen keeping Luke for a short while until it was time for him to begin training as a Jedi under Ben.

What exactly do you mean by this, that Owen and Beru would only look after Luke during his infancy, after which they give him over to Obi-Wan who begins traditional Jedi training? That was never the plan at all, Ob-Wan and Yoda even establish in ROTS to leave Luke with the Lars family and that Obi-Wan would only watch over and protect them. They wanted Luke and Leia to have a normal family life. Besides, if they wanted Luke to be trained as a traditional Jedi, there'd be no point in leaving him with the Lars' anyway, Obi-Wan could have just raised him all along.

(a dictatorship can go after anybody for any reason, as seen here on Earth, if a person attracts the attention of said dictatorship.)

Tatooine isn't an Imperial world though, and at least when witnesses are present, there are limits to what the Empire can do there, as seen in Mos Eisley when the Stormtroopers are politely knocking on doors and moving on when no one answers. On an Imperial world they would have just busted those doors down without even knocking.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I did not talk about 'collaborating' with the Empire or the Alliance; I was talking about Owen keeping Luke for a short while until it was time for him to begin training as a Jedi under Ben. Owen didn't hold up his part of the deal for whatever reasons

You understand that keeping a deal with a Rebel is the very definition of collaboration, right?!

 

[Tuskin38]

Owen should have realized that somebody somewhere higher up in the Empire (Vader or Palpatine) might connect the dots while hunting for any stray Jedi that escaped the purge, figure out that there's a Force-sensitive youth on a backwater planet, and then send spies to figure out where said youth is, then send Stormtroopers to arrest and/or kill him as a threat to the Empire (he was a reasoning man when he was discussing where Threepio and Artoo might have come from in the novelization with Luke at the dinner table, why not this?) Kevin Smith even talks about this somewhat in the latest Cinema Sins video (around 5:26-ish):

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Cinema Sins videos are not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Cinema Sins videos are not meant to be taken seriously.

That little bit was the only one I liked, and it made sense to me.

 

[Reverend]

You understand that keeping a deal with a Rebel is the very definition of collaboration, right?!

A deal implies Owen was getting something out of this in exchange for feeding, clothing and raising someone else's child for the next couple decades. I don't think there was a "deal" persee as Obi-Wan was hardly in a position to set conditions or make demands upon an act of charity.

Indeed, from the "Journals of Ben Kenobi" comics, it seems as if Kenobi approached Owen to train Luke when he was very young (I'm guessing 3 or 4, when Jedi initiates are usually taken) but Owen flatly forbade it. Since Ben abided by his wishes all that time, it's clear he had no hold over Lars.

 

[JD]

I still don't see how the Lars, pretty much by coincidence, ending with R2-D2 and C-3P0 is connected to them raising Luke.

As for the movie, my ideal would be a purely Tattooine based story along the lines of Shane or Yojimbo, where Obi-Wan is drawn into some kind of local conflict and ends up having to get involved. If they wanted to they could still find ways to connect it to the larger universe, but the stuff "Ben" is involved with should stay pretty contained.

 

[Tuskin38]

As for the movie, my ideal would be a purely Tattooine based story along the lines of Shane or Yojimbo, where Obi-Wan is drawn into some kind of local conflict and ends up having to get involved. If they wanted to they could still find ways to connect it to the larger universe, but the stuff "Ben" is involved with should stay pretty contained.

That is basically how the Legends novel 'Kenobi' went.

 

[Reverend]

I still don't see how the Lars, pretty much by coincidence, ending with R2-D2 and C-3P0 is connected to them raising Luke.

Something. Something. Will of the Force. Something. Something. You cannot escape your destiny!

Honestly though, it's not *that* much of a coincidence. Leia was coming for Obi-Wan and her ship looked like it was already in low orbit, about to enter the upper atmosphere when Vader caught up with them. So odds are they were almost directly over the jundland wastes where Kenobi lived, which was by design within relatively easy travel distance of the Lars homestead (though not *too* close, obviously.) This notion is backed up by the deleted scene where Luke witnesses the battle though some binoculars.

So when the droids landed in a pod it was just out on the near edge the dune sea, which is relatively close. From then on it was just a matter of time before some Jawas found them and started hocking them around the local settlements, the nearest being of course, the Lars homestead. From then on it was all Threepio's doing as he practically badgered Owen into buying both him and Artoo.

Even if Owen hadn't gone for it, Artoo would most likely haven ended up at Tosche Station, Anchorhead or the Darklighter homestead, found some way to get that bolt off of him and make his way to Kenobi. Odds are the next step would have been to scoop up Luke (who would have probably screwing around at Tosche Station while the Imperials murdered the Lars.) And unless Han managed to find another job in the interim, things would have played out more or less the same.
Given the extra time, Leia may have been executed by the time they made it to the Alderaan system, but I like to think she would have broken herself out of holding before that and got away seperatly.

 

[JD]

OK, I will give you that one.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

From then on it was all Threepio's doing as he practically badgered Owen into buying both him and Artoo.

Don't forget that R2 was hollering at 3PO from behind his restraining bolt, something like, "Hey, what about me? Remember me, me, me!"

 

[Reverend]

Don't forget that R2 was hollering at 3PO from behind his restraining bolt, something like, "Hey, what about me? Remember me, me, me!"

Sure, but it was Threepio that pointed him out to Luke, who in turn suggested it to Owen. I think it's a safe bet had R2 not chirped up, 3PO would still have said something eventually. Mind you, I'm also of the opinion that R5-D4 was the victim of sabotage.