Lorca: Fans Will Have To Adjust

[BillJ]

They care enough that they don't like the novel writers going against it. Or so Christopher says.

A merchandising exec doesn't have the same powers as a creator of a TV series/movie. They go with Akira because that is what it has always went by. CBS isn't going to stop someone rolling out a multi-million dollar project from changing the name.

"The Cage"/"Where No Man..." uniforms are canon. No one is stopping Discovery from changing them.

 

[Jedi_Master]

"The Cage"/"Where No Man..." uniforms are canon. No one is stopping Discovery from changing them.

Correct, it's really up to us fans to figure out how to make the disparate parts fit together. Or we can just let reality slip in and recognize why everyone was wearing velour and ill fitting PJ's: they were cheaper.

 

[Kor]

I have always loved the sheen of the velour material from The Cage and TOS seasons 1 and 2. It looked a lot more visually interesting than the polyester of season 3, even though those were more fitted.

Kor

 

[Jedi_Master]

I hated the collars. Reminded me of sweaters I had to wear as a kid.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

"The Cage"/"Where No Man..." uniforms are canon. No one is stopping Discovery from changing them.

Oh boy...

 

[Ithekro]

I treated "Starship-class" in the same way the British treat some of their ship classes. As an identifier of the naming convention used for the class of ship...but it isn't the actual class name. The Royal Navy has had, "County-class", "River-class" "Battle-class" "R-class" "W-class", and "Admiralty-class" ships on their lists. Each of these is indicates what the ships of that class are named after, though technically speaking the first ship of the class (and sometimes subclasses) are the name ship of the class. The R-class battleships are the Revenge-class actually. The County-class cruisers are actually four subclasses of cruisers: Kent-class, London-class, Norfolk-class, and York-class. There was also a County-class destroyers later that could be subdivided into two batches of the Devonshire and Fife classes.

There is also precedent for a ship class to change names as it gets refitted differently from other ships of its class over the decades. But near the end of its career, or after all are retired, they are get lumped back into the original class name to easy tracking. The Essex-class carriers are a good example of this happening from there inception for World War II until the last once was retired in the 1990s.

The "Starship class" are ships named after famous starships.

 

[Jayson1]

I think that CBS is wagering that they will be able to attract more than enough new fans with Discovery to counteract any old fans they lose.

I don't see that happening, at least at first. I think it might take a couple of years before you see a major impact from any new fans. I don't see people paying CBS all-access on the chance they might like the show. I think they will wait until it comes to Netflix and even then it still has to compete against the fact the comic book shows/movies and Star Wars is everywhere right now. I mean didn't it take a few years for TNG to really bring in new fans and that was back when you had no genre stuff to compete against. Not to mention it might even have to compete against itself with the new Khan based show.

I think one other issue they are forgetting when underestimating the old school fans is people know this won't be the last Trek show. Once something becomes franchise it never dies anymore and not only that but they don't don't even wait that long to take try a new attempt. Were already on our 3rd Spiderman since 2001 and the Terminator movies don't look like they will ever die. If fans don't like the show all they have to do is wait a few years and presto you get another Trek show to judge. Perhaps one of the reasons why fans have been so loyal in the past is because you really did have a fear that the franchise needed their support or it would die off, forever. I think it also might relay more on how many new fans were created by the Kelvin Universe movies. I'm never certain as to how popular they really are. Even here you seem to have a almost even split between people who enjoyed them and those who , hated them.

Jason

 

[BillJ]

Or we can just let reality slip in and recognize why everyone was wearing velour and ill fitting PJ's: they were cheaper.

I prefer the velour and ill fitting PJ's to the Senior exercise wear. I swear I've seen the Discovery uniforms walking around my local mall for decades now!

 

[Fateor]

Does All-Access, when paid for, have commercials for the programs or are the programs shown commercial-free? And can one watch all the episodes in one go or does one have to wait one week for one episode?

They have commercials, you have to pay even more to get the show without.

 

[Vger23]

Fair point - although the 1701 is confirmed as constitution class by Trials and Tribble-ations. But I guess the Refit could have a different class name.

ETA: This episode also gives a precise canonical date for The Trouble with Tribbles which I'd never noticed before. They state the exact time that has passed between the two episodes.

Picard actually calls out the original Enterprise as "Constitution-class" in The Naked Now as well.

 

[Mudd]

I don't see that happening, at least at first. I think it might take a couple of years before you see a major impact from any new fans.

You'll see it immediately.

 

[Noname Given]

I don't see that happening, at least at first. I think it might take a couple of years before you see a major impact from any new fans. I don't see people paying CBS all-access on the chance they might like the show. I think they will wait until it comes to Netflix and even then it still has to compete against the fact the comic book shows/movies and Star Wars is everywhere right now. I mean didn't it take a few years for TNG to really bring in new fans and that was back when you had no genre stuff to compete against. Not to mention it might even have to compete against itself with the new Khan based show.

I think one other issue they are forgetting when underestimating the old school fans is people know this won't be the last Trek show. Once something becomes franchise it never dies anymore and not only that but they don't don't even wait that long to take try a new attempt. Were already on our 3rd Spiderman since 2001 and the Terminator movies don't look like they will ever die. If fans don't like the show all they have to do is wait a few years and presto you get another Trek show to judge. Perhaps one of the reasons why fans have been so loyal in the past is because you really did have a fear that the franchise needed their support or it would die off, forever. I think it also might relay more on how many new fans were created by the Kelvin Universe movies. I'm never certain as to how popular they really are. Even here you seem to have a almost even split between people who enjoyed them and those who , hated them.

Jason

Yes, because no one of the current CBSAA (what 2 million subscribers) will like/become a fan of ST: D - it's just impossible because we all now everyone who is a Star Trek right now are the ONLY people seeing these promos that could be persuaded to sign up for CBS All Access because no non-Star Trek fan could possibly find these promos interesting enough to subscribe.

It's the same reason the JJ Films (when they came out) utterly failed to attract new fans to Star Trek and overall did so poorly at the box office compared to 'real' Star Trek films like say Star Trek: Nemesis...oh, wait.

 

[Jayson1]

Yes, because no one of the current CBSAA (what 2 million subscribers) will like/become a fan of ST: D - it's just impossible because we all now everyone who is a Star Trek right now are the ONLY people seeing these promos that could be persuaded to sign up for CBS All Access because no non-Star Trek fan could possibly find these promos interesting enough to subscribe.

It's the same reason the JJ Films (when they came out) utterly failed to attract new fans to Star Trek and overall did so poorly at the box office compared to 'real' Star Trek films like say Star Trek: Nemesis...oh, wait.

I think new fans will be interested. Does that mean though it will be so interesting that they might not be willing to wait until it's on Netflix? Actually this might not be the case, outside of America were I think they will be able to see it on Netflix. This also doesn't even factor in the issue of people who will watch it from a illegal source. I just don't get the logic of putting something like this on your streaming site until your site becomes more of a hit. Netflix didn't start of from the beginning by trying to get people to watch "House of Cards." They already had people interested in the site and that show and the others that followed simply elevated it to another level.

Seems to me the logical thing to do is to put it on CBS or Netflix and then put the spin-off's or other new Trek stuff on CBS All Access. Frankly they should become the Star Trek channel IMO and have that be it's niche. I'm not even sure they are still not seen as the old people channel,

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

They obviously consider it a fact in-universe.

Who "They" are changes though. And with those changes so does what is canon.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I don't understand why we can't take the word of those who worked directly on the show as canon.

They obviously consider it a fact in-universe.

But idf there is ever a reason to have a story in which (just to keep going with your example) the class of ships "colloquially" (only in production notes) called Akira Class need to be called something else on screen for some reason, then they won't hesitate to create onscreen canon that contradicts that "production note" canon. And it would not really be a canon contradiction, because "Akira Class" was never on screen.

As mentioned by others, it is a nice placeholder name for that class, and that placeholder name might last forever, but the fact that it was never on screen before makes it pretty simple for the writers to ignore it if the reason ever arises to do so.

 

[Noname Given]

I think new fans will be interested. Does that mean though it will be so interesting that they might not be willing to wait until it's on Netflix? Actually this might not be the case, outside of America were I think they will be able to see it on Netflix. This also doesn't even factor in the issue of people who will watch it from a illegal source. I just don't get the logic of putting something like this on your streaming site until your site becomes more of a hit. Netflix didn't start of from the beginning by trying to get people to watch "House of Cards." They already had people interested in the site and that show and the others that followed simply elevated it to another level.

Seems to me the logical thing to do is to put it on CBS or Netflix and then put the spin-off's or other new Trek stuff on CBS All Access. Frankly they should become the Star Trek channel IMO and have that be it's niche. I'm not even sure they are still not seen as the old people channel,

Jason

You do realize that ST: D IS on Netflix outside of the U.S. and Canada. Given what CBS has stated OVER and OVER RE: It's reason for and strategy behind ST: D - why would you believe it will EVER be on Netflix in the U.S. or Canada?
(And again, if you're outside of the U.S. - it IS on Netflix.)

CBS will probably release the series of Blu-Ray at some point (and it's also possible they might not for some time) - but to put it on a competing service (Netflix) in the U.S. and/or Canada (even for 'old' seasons makes zero business sense.)

 

[tenmei]

I know I'm not in the US - but a colleague who I showed the new trailer to is convinced to give it a go, partly from the viewpoint he likes The Walking Dead and partly because he thought the trailer looked cool. So I wouldn't necessarily say it appeals just to Trek fans.

 

[SPCTRE]

You'll see it immediately.

Yup.

 

[Myko]

A mistake?! In the Precious?

Ster-i-lize- ster-i-liiiize :nomad:

 

[Tuskin38]

But idf there is ever a reason to have a story in which (just to keep going with your example) the class of ships "colloquially" (only in production notes) called Akira Class need to be called something else on screen for some reason, then they won't hesitate to create onscreen canon that contradicts that "production note" canon. And it would not really be a canon contradiction, because "Akira Class" was never on screen.

As mentioned by others, it is a nice placeholder name for that class, and that placeholder name might last forever, but the fact that it was never on screen before makes it pretty simple for the writers to ignore it if the reason ever arises to do so.

I guess. I just saw that internally on Nemesis the Valdore was called "Valdore Class" but the novels ignored that and called it Mogai.

So not even the novels are beholden to production names all the time.