A question about the episode 'A Taste of Armageddon'.

[jup]

Been watching a season one DVD collection, recently. And, I just watched 'A Taste of Armageddon'. However, I noticed an interesting conflict in plot pop up. Just wanted to ask if there was a missing scene or two that anyone was aware of.

So, around the 29 minute mark, this ambassador guy is trying to push his foolish authority onto Scotty about lowering the shields to beam down. Yet, the society on the planet is ready to release a lethal assault the second those shields are lowered.

Yet, just five minutes later at the 34 minute mark, Mr. Ambassador and assistant has beamed down, despite Scotty absolutely refusing to lower the shields and the threatening weapons are not used in the slightest.

An absolute reversal of the situation that was set up, here.

So...was there a few important scenes lost, due to time editing? Or was this just a case of the writers forgetting what it was they were even creating?

I understand. This is TV. Time constraints and budget is always a challenge. Great paux pas moments can happen without the time to iron out the rough spots. Can point at one particular episode of DS9, where the Defiant has to be manually operated. (Virus attack, or something.) They pain painstakingly go about setting up a whole list of rules that must be followed. And...by the end of the episode, I swear they manage to break each and every one of those rules.

Still, I can't help but think that something important was clipped out onto the cutting room floor in this episode.

 

[Spock's Barber]

I'm not sure, but maybe this was edited out...

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[Phaser Two]

Yeah, this has always bugged me because it was the first real Scotty in Command episode (which are all great) and Scotty's defiance of Fox was awesome. Fox beaming down anyway undermines that.

At one point Anan is told by his space command dudes that the "star cruiser" has moved out of weapons range. I have a feeling that the range of the transporter was longer than that of the Eminians' weapons.

 

[Timo]

I think there's a deep fan misunderstanding here regarding the whole "beaming down vs. shields" thing.

The episode doesn't make the slightest suggestion that shields would hinder beaming. Instead, Ambassador Fox wants the shields dropped as a gesture of goodwill, and it's that gesture that Scotty rejects. The beaming down is another gesture of goodwill and faith, but it is not related to shields in any way.

Later in Star Trek ("Arena"!), it is established that shields block beaming up. Never in Star Trek is there an indication that shields should block beaming down, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phaser Two]

Arena comes before Taste of Armageddon, not later.

 

[Timo]

Ah, right. Anyway, that's the one episode that launches the "no beaming up through shields" trope. And there's no "no beaming down through shields" trope in Star Trek - only a bunch of heroes worrying that since they can't drop shields, it's not wise to beam people down.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phaser Two]

Interesting, but I don't think it's very logical to assume that the shields' opacity to beaming only runs in one direction.

 

[Timo]

Why not? Everything else works that way, too - you can fire phasers and torpedoes out through the shields but not in.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Herbert]

I'm not sure, but maybe this was edited out...

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lol Classic. "Why the hell aren't I notified about these things?"

 

[Galileo7]

General Order 24, Scotty and Kirk statements proved this was not a bluff like the "Corbomite Maneuver". If GO24 had been used throughout TOS, Star Trek would have been extremely different. Although, GO24 sounded like it was from the "Mirror,Mirror" Federation.

 

[Push The Button]

General Order 24, Scotty and Kirk statements proved this was not a bluff like the "Corbomite Maneuver". If GO24 had been used throughout TOS, Star Trek would have been extremely different. Although, GO24 sounded like it was from the "Mirror,Mirror" Federation.

A plausible fan theory is that GO24 is intended for an Operation: Annihilate! situation, where there is some sort of deadly alien or biological infestation on a planet that needs to be halted before it can spread to other places.

Kirk even recommends the action in WNMHGB in his last orders to Dr. Piper before going off to confront Mitchell:

If you have not received a signal from me within twelve hours, you'll proceed at maximum warp to the nearest Earth base with my recommendation that this entire planet be subjected to a lethal concentration of neutron radiation. No protest on this, Mark. That's an order.

 

[Tenacity]

Scotty and Kirk statements proved this was not a bluff

Which statements do you mean?

 

[Galileo7]

Which statements do you mean?

From this dialogue we see that GO24 is not a bluff by Kirk as we saw the Corbomite Maneuver was...
[Council Room]
KIRK: Scotty, General Order Twenty Four. Two hours! In two hours!
ANAN: Enterprise, this is Anan Seven, First Councilman of the High Council of Eminiar.

[Bridge]

ANAN [OC]: We hold your Captain, his party, your Ambassador and his party prisoners.


[Council Room]

ANAN: Unless you immediately start transportation of all personnel aboard your ship to the surface, the hostages will be killed. You have thirty minutes. I mean it, Captain.
KIRK: All that it means is that I won't be around for the destruction. You heard me give General Order Twenty Four. That means in two hours the Enterprise will destroy Eminiar Seven.
ANAN: Planetary defence System, open fire on the Enterprise!
SECURITY [OC]: I'm sorry, Councilman. The target has moved out of range.
ANAN: You wouldn't do this. Hundreds of millions of people.
KIRK: I didn't start it, Councilman, but I'm liable to finish it.
(Meanwhile Spock and his group are moving through the corridors. Fox's aide gets injured in one weapons exchange so they leave him behind.)
SAR: Councilman, I received a message from Vendikar. Our time is nearly up. Our quota is short by several thousand. They accuse us of reneging on the treaty.
ANAN: You see? It's started.
KIRK: You're wrong. It hasn't begun.
SECURITY [OC]: Councilman, Disintegrator station eleven has been destroyed. Guard positions in tunnels eight and ten fail to answer. Earth party reported seen in corridor 4A.
KIRK: You have less than two hours, Councilman.
ANAN: What I want or don't want has nothing to do with it. Escalation is automatic. You can stop it!
KIRK: Stop it? I'm counting on it.


[Bridge]

SCOTT: Open a channel, Lieutenant. This is the commander of the USS Enterprise.


[Council Room]

SCOTT [OC]: All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system. In one hour and forty five minutes


[Bridge]

SCOTT: The entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed.


[Council Room]

SCOTT: You have that long to surrender your hostages.

 

[Noname Given]

Interesting, but I don't think it's very logical to assume that the shields' opacity to beaming only runs in one direction.

I would? Why?

lets say a beam weapon penetrates the shields - but glances off the Hull. If the shield block BOTH paths - said beam would 'ricochet' on hitting the other shield, etc (and yes, in TOS they seemed to have the ability to do both 'skin tight' and 'bubble' shield configurations - so of course I'm talking about the latter.

 

[Timo]

From this dialogue we see that GO24 is not a bluff by Kirk as we saw the Corbomite Maneuver was...

Nothing there to indicate non-bluff. Kirk tells Scotty to play out GO24. Scotty then opens a channel and postures a lot. He stops doing so when Kirk tells him to stop. All of that is consistent with a prearranged bluff.

We have no idea whether he actually targeted those cities. Even if he did, we have no reason to think he would have pressed the trigger.

There is no scene in which Scotty would actually target the cities, and no scene where Scotty would mutter under his breath "Good thing the Captain finally came to his senses, I'm itching to burn those bastards" or "The Captain must be in serious trouble - I cannae believe he'd wish to kill all those innocent folks for nothing".

The only real question is whether General Order 24 is a Starfleet General Order to launch a bluff carefully defined in the books; a Starfleet General Order to launch a bluff the Captain is required to define in advance; or merely Kirk's personal idea for a clever bluff, one he calls a General Order for greater effect.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[UnknownSample]

Timo, I now have integrated into my Trek knowledge the fact that they can beam out or down through the shields, but not beam anyone up or back through them. I have to trust that you've been pretty thorough about this though.... I'm not about to research it myself...

 

[Herbert]

Nothing there to indicate non-bluff. Kirk tells Scotty to play out GO24. Scotty then opens a channel and postures a lot. He stops doing so when Kirk tells him to stop. All of that is consistent with a prearranged bluff.

We have no idea whether he actually targeted those cities. Even if he did, we have no reason to think he would have pressed the trigger.

There is no scene in which Scotty would actually target the cities, and no scene where Scotty would mutter under his breath "Good thing the Captain finally came to his senses, I'm itching to burn those bastards" or "The Captain must be in serious trouble - I cannae believe he'd wish to kill all those innocent folks for nothing".

The only real question is whether General Order 24 is a Starfleet General Order to launch a bluff carefully defined in the books; a Starfleet General Order to launch a bluff the Captain is required to define in advance; or merely Kirk's personal idea for a clever bluff, one he calls a General Order for greater effect.

Timo Saloniemi

Where are you getting this from? Not challenging you. I'm interested in the source of all this knowledge

 

[Timo]

Oh, trust me, there are a thousand and one examples of the heroes or villains saying "We can't beam down there now - we'd have to drop shields!". But those are always cases of them intending to get back, too, and more or less right away at that.

Of course, all it takes is one lousy line about not being able to beam out intact through raised shields... But such a line would be in contradiction of, say, "Datalore" where Lore, you know, survives being beamed out through raised shields. So it's nice we haven't gotten such a line yet.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Herbert]

Watching A Taste of Armageddon I don't get the sense that GO24 was any kind of a bluff. Neither Kirk nor Scotty ever give you any whiff of a hint that it's anything other than brutal seriousness. I don't see bluff at all.

 

[Timo]

I don't see any "knowledge" required for establishing that what we see is consistent with bluff. It's consistent with other things, too, but it certainly doesn't serve as evidence against bluff. And surely you'd be brutally serious when bluffing?

The thing dramatically separating GO24 from corbomite is that we get to see interaction between the characters when Kirk claims he has corbomite. When Kirk claims he has GO24, he's cut off from everybody else, so there's no chance of nudge-nudge, wink-wink.

Timo Saloniemi