shatner on 'stupid' 2009 cameo

[Khan 2.0]

One of the more interesting exchanges during his Q&A time in Vegas was when a fan started off saying he thought it was a shame Shatner was not in J.J. Abrams 2009 Star Trek movie. Shatner emphatically agreed with “I do too!” The fan apparently came prepared as he then asked Shatner about the scene written for him for the movie (which was exclusively revealed here at TrekMovie in 2009). Bill asked the fan where he saw the scene and the fan replied it was a “reliable source,” to which Shatner replied:

"Reliable source? That’s fake news!…But seriously I have heard that story, but it has never been in my consciousness. I am not aware of that at all."

The fan then spent about 45 seconds describing the scene in detail (which involved Leonard Nimoy’s Spock giving Zachary Quinto’s Spock a recording of the original Kirk which would have been played by Shatner) until Bill stopped him and interjected:

"That is the stupidest scene I have ever heard of! When I saw Leonard [Nimoy] in the first movie that J.J. [Abrams] made and he went back in time, I said to Leonard “You know you are old when you go back in time and you are still old!”…Those are gratuitous scenes! I want to play something – well the question is “How do you put this 50 year older captain into that thing?”

While TrekMovie has confirmed that the scene was indeed written for Shatner, one of the reasons it is not in his “consciousness” is that after it was only pitched internally to the creative team. The group decided not to put the scene in the movie and therefore it was never presented to Shatner. Director J.J. Abrams felt at the time Shatner’s Kirk being killed off in Star Trek: Generations created too many complications for bringing him back. Abrams actually spoke about this last year saying:

"In all the years we’ve been working on this, I’ve yet to hear a pitch that didn’t sound too contorted and contrived for an audience to swallow. And I’ve talked to him (Shatner) about it. If Kirk had lived there’d be an answer. But there’s something about his having died that makes it impossible."

http://trekmovie.com/2017/08/13/stl...trek-2009-scene-explains-kirk-acting-process/

Have to disagree with Shatner there, its a great scene (reminiscent of The Tholian Web) and would've made quite alot of sense (almost reads as Shatner handing over to his younger self, and 'the journey itself is home' alludes to 'we have come home' at end of TVH) and would've been a great end to the movie like a big wow moment to end on. guess it was sort of revisited and revised for end of Beyond (actually I remember now when Spock 2.0 was going through his stuff I half expected what he pulled out to be the Shat holo-emitter)

Also of interest

Announces (possibly Star Trek) VR project
Of course Shatner will never stop working and during his time on stage he discussed a number of upcoming projects. This included a cryptic mention of something to do with VR that may be related to Star Trek:

"I am going to be doing a big thing with virtual reality. It is going to be stunning and its new and nobody has done it yet. That’s how I can appear in a Star Trek movie'.

Likely isn't but wonder if hes talking about Ready Player One? (not that its known hes in it or not)

 

[Jax]

We know what age Kirk dies in the prime universe so maybe with CGI they could of made him look like he did back when in Generations but I'm happy they didn't have Kirk in the movie. Nimoy was more than good enough as a way to bridge the gap between both timelines.

 

[Kaelef]

As much as I love Nimoy and Shatner, I think it was absolutely the right call to minimize their involvement in the new movies. If anything, I think there was a bit too much of Nimoy in it -- certainly putting him in the second movie felt entirely gratuitous.

 

[Timewalker]

As much as I love Nimoy and Shatner, I think it was absolutely the right call to minimize their involvement in the new movies. If anything, I think there was a bit too much of Nimoy in it -- certainly putting him in the second movie felt entirely gratuitous.

No disrespect to Leonard Nimoy, but it felt like his Spock had become nuSpock's "phone a friend" crutch whenever he had a problem.

 

[Malaika]

I didn't like the scene they wrote for Shatner because it was a forced cameo. I don't see Spock Prime giving aos Spock that message from old Kirk because it's a bit too manipulative and cheesy for him. It's hard for this Spock to care one way or another about Spock Prime's friend because he had just met the Kirk from his reality and they barely stand each other, so old Spock trying to convince him to change his mind also through a friendship that for this Spock doesn't even exist feels useless.
There is a phrase they cut from the dialog between this Spock and Spock prime that is perfectly in character and is key (and they shouldn't have cut)
Spock: My future cannot be determined by your past. We are one, but not the same.
just like that.

In terms of how the audience would respond to that scene.. well, the one aspect I personally don't like about the kirk/spock's friendship in this trek is the fact it relies too much on 'destiny' and they, and us, are just 'told' they must be best friends forever, but they are not truly allowed to have their own story and build a friendship in a realistic way. They are different here so one way or another, it's already impossible for them to have the same exact dynamic they had in tos.
I also find this is one of those aspects that always have the risk of alienating a new audience of people who never watched trek, and thus can't share our existing emotional investement in the characters and old dynamics. People shouldn't feel like they need to watch tos to enjoy some things and fully 'get' the reboot because, after all, they are two different products anyway.
Nods are fine and so is nostalgia to an extent, but this definitely is one of those instances, for me, where you need to really balance things carefully.

as for Shatner, he had been super inconsistent about the reboot for years. Probably they didn't even offer that scene to him because it's a cameo and JJ knew that Shatner wasn't up for cameos and he'd react the way he reacted here. He had always wanted to play a big important role like Nimoy (you can argue he didn't get a lot of screentime but his role is pretty pivotal) but JJ had enough integrity, I think, to recognize that doing that would be detrimental to this trek and its cast, especially new Kirk.

 

[Nyotarules]

the one aspect I personally don't like about the kirk/spock's friendship in this trek is the fact it relies too much on 'destiny' and they, and us, are just 'told' they must be best friends forever, but they are not truly allowed to have their own story and build a friendship in a realistic way.

Which makes that scene in STID the Fake wrath of the CumberKhan absolutely ridiculous and contrived.

 

[Danlav05]

I can't see how Kirk Prime can come back in a JJVerse movie unless the Nexus pases through the Kelvin Timeline. Remember Shatner has aged since 1994. i can see why he didn't like the 2009 cameo as written. And yes the Nimoy STID thing was contrived!

If Shatner does appear it should be as an elderly Pine or do what they did with Cushing and Fisher in Rogue One. maybe Vic Mignogna can be the body double and Shatner can dub the voice? I would like him back as Kirk somehow one last time, be it in the movies, TV or something else.

 

[Nyotarules]

I would like some real life consequences with the main characters, yes even it if meant the death of nuKirk in STID, be dead and stay dead. And that includes no messages from the TOS Kirk grave.

 

[Malaika]

Which makes that scene in STID the Fake wrath of the CumberKhan absolutely ridiculous and contrived.

I feel like they wanted to reassure old fans that some things are the same and that K/S have the same iconic friendship, but they forgot that if they don't have one yet it's because of the narrative that they themselves set up. They denied the characters the chance to build on what they have, instead of what they are supposed to have, no doubt trying to placate certain fans (who, ironically, hate stid for the nods.. but then love beyond in spite of being even more heavy on the nostalgia and nods..)

Spock's reaction when Kirk dies is OOC from every angle especially when you remember how he reacted when his mother died and vulcan got destroyed (he wasn't cold, you could tell he was grieving, you could see his desperatation even if he didn't cry or scream. Maybe even more because he didn't)
I can only rationalize it all with that being some sort of last straw for him because he has ptsd after what happened to him..but then again, the movie only hints at this aspect through his relationship with Uhura without truly developing it.. which was by itself a waste. Now it's too late, it was already forced for him to have survivor guilt 3 years after in Beyond, especially the way they used that.

A problem both stid and beyond have is that they don't build on the aftermath of what happened in the previous movie enough, especially what happened to vulcan. Aside from the fact they are rebuilding, it's reasonable to believe that what happened has everlasting consequences on the vulcans (it's a profound change for their society that could change the course of trek's history as we know it) and the federation itself, not to mention the relationship with the romulans.

 

[The Wormhole]

No disrespect to Leonard Nimoy, but it felt like his Spock had become nuSpock's "phone a friend" crutch whenever he had a problem.

Ah yes, "I have sworn a solemn vow never to discuss the future with you. But since you are asking, I will make an exception. Just this once."

 

[Nyotarules]

I feel like they wanted to reassure old fans that some things are the same and that K/S have the same iconic friendship, but they forgot that if they don't have one yet it's because of the narrative that they themselves set up. They denied the characters the chance to build on what they have, instead of what they are supposed to have, no doubt trying to placate certain fans (who, ironically, hate stid for the nods.. but then love beyond in spite of being even more heavy on the nostalgia and nods..)

Spock's reaction when Kirk dies is OOC from every angle especially when you remember how he reacted when his mother died and vulcan got destroyed (he wasn't cold, you could tell he was grieving, you could see his desperatation even if he didn't cry or scream. Maybe even more because he didn't)
I can only rationalize it all with that being some sort of last straw for him because he has ptsd after what happened to him..but then again, the movie only hints at this aspect through his relationship with Uhura without truly developing it.. which was by itself a waste. Now it's too late, it was already forced for him to have survivor guilt 3 years after in Beyond, especially the way they used that.

A problem both stid and beyond have is that they don't build on the aftermath of what happened in the previous movie enough, especially what happened to vulcan. Aside from the fact they are rebuilding, it's reasonable to believe that what happened has everlasting consequences on the vulcans (it's a profound change for their society that could change the course of trek's history as we know it) and the federation itself, not to mention the relationship with the romulans.

Its why my head fanon sticks with there are millions of Vulcans left who chose to live on other Fed worlds or Vulcan colonies. That 10,000 line is another one that made me think WTF these writers don't know Trek at all! Either that or these nuVulcans were a bunch of isolationsts for 2000 years despite having space travel since Earth's Roman era. Everybody lived on Vulcan and nowhere else.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Spock's reaction when Kirk dies is OOC from every angle especially when you remember how he reacted when his mother died and vulcan got destroyed (he wasn't cold, you could tell he was grieving, you could see his desperatation even if he didn't cry or scream. Maybe even more because he didn't)

It seemed perfectly in line with Spock's reaction when his mother was slighted by Vulcan bullies and then later when Kirk pushed him.

I'm not saying his yelling "Khan!!!" wasn't dumb, but screaming and hitting people is an established thing he does when he's pushed too far.

 

[Malaika]

It seemed perfectly in line with Spock's reaction when his mother was slighted by Vulcan bullies and then later when Kirk pushed him.

I'm not saying his yelling "Khan!!!" wasn't dumb, but screaming and hitting people is an established thing he does when he's pushed too far.

I think the problem is not that it's 'impossible' for Spock to have that kind of reaction. If the scene is deemed as OOC it has more to do with the kind of relationship him and Kirk have in that point not justifying that kind of reaction. Unless, again, you rationalize it all as that being the last straw for him.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I would like some real life consequences with the main characters, yes even it if meant the death of nuKirk in STID, be dead and stay dead. And that includes no messages from the TOS Kirk grave.

Since Anton Yelchin has died, Chekov is also going to be either dead or transferred off of the ship, so that should answer that.

 

[Ovation]

The only way for Shatner to appear in a future Kelvinverse film in a manner not entirely implausible (I neither expect nor advocate the following) is to have a "cold opening" like Nibiru and have it be a reimagined version of the final part of the TOS episode "The Deadly Years". Shatner-Kirk has a short but important role in saving the ship, before being rejuvenated into Pine-Kirk in sickbay. More than a talking head cameo on a viewscreen but nothing that lasts too long AND having it upfront and contained, would not interfere with the rest of the story.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think the problem is not that it's 'impossible' for Spock to have that kind of reaction. If the scene is deemed as OOC it has more to do with the kind of relationship him and Kirk have in that point not justifying that kind of reaction. Unless, again, you rationalize it all as that being the last straw for him.

I never had a problem seeing a meaningful (albeit antagonistic) friendship between Kirk and Spock in ID. They clearly cared for each other a great deal, but Spock didn't acknowledge it until it was too late...

 

[Malaika]

The only way for Shatner to appear in a future Kelvinverse film in a manner not entirely implausible (I neither expect nor advocate the following) is to have a "cold opening" like Nibiru and have it be a reimagined version of the final part of the TOS episode "The Deadly Years". Shatner-Kirk has a short but important role in saving the ship, before being rejuvenated into Pine-Kirk in sickbay. More than a talking head cameo on a viewscreen but nothing that lasts too long AND having it upfront and contained, would not interfere with the rest of the story.

I'm going to trek fandom hell for saying this but, honestly, after all the stuff I heard about Shatner (both from the tos era and the movies) and the opinion I have of him from his own interviews/comments/behavior, I wouldn't want my worst enemy to ever work with someone like him^ his ego seems to be a nightmare and while the old writers and old cast were forced to deal with him because, well, he played the main guy and they had no choice, I don't think it would be necessary for those working in and for the reboot too, especially the new cast.

I never had a problem seeing a meaningful (albeit antagonistic) friendship between Kirk and Spock in ID. They clearly cared for each other a great deal, but Spock didn't acknowledge it until it was too late...

My feelings had always been that Kirk and Bones are the friendship but Kirk wants Spock to be his best friend because of what Spock Prime told/showed him. Because they were told they'd have an epic friendship and it's 'meant to be'.

And for the most part, Spock's reactions are realistic. It's just that, from his perspective, it's so easy to see why he didn't really have all these reasons to believe they are friends. They just met each other and they know so little about the other and, frankly, never really do the things friends usually do. Spock also has so much, personally, to deal with already with the fact that he may have a survivor guilt and being suicidal, which Uhura of course notices and at least tries to make him deal with it, but Kirk doesn't even see that (and therefore makes no attempt to 'help' his friend)

There is no 'so how are you doing after what happened to you?need someone to talk about all of that?', or even a simple 'I'm sorry about what happened and I'm sorry I had to use the tragedy against you to make you emotionally compromised that one time' - there is no understanding that Spock's actions in the volcano might be contradictory and uncharacteristic for him. Kirk is only concerned about the fact that Spock isn't human like him and 'doesn't get friendship', and doesn't thank him for saving him, and doesn't lie in his mission report for him which, alone, is a hint that they aren't a great team at work yet and they don't know each other well enough otherwise Kirk would understand that expecting Spock to lie in his report is silly.

I think I'll never be able to like the interpretation that wants Spock constantly perceived as the clueless alien only. He DOES understand he gotta be accountable to the ones who care about him and whom he cares about (Uhura, Kirk..), but his reactions to Kirk before the latter's death aren't, for the most part, so far fetched or 'alien'.

 

[Ovation]

I'm not advocating a Shatner appearance (that ship sailed long ago) but merely offering the only way it could reasonably still be done IF it were to happen at all.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I am aware this is an old thread, but I thought this video could only add to the discussion overall, if the mods have a different opinion, feel free to remove said video.

Anyway, I was about to rewatch the 2009 flick, and thought why not tinker with it and add the much vaunted and talked about Shatner cameo? I present it in the most bare minimum of efforts, using AI for images and voice manipulation. But its strictly for fun, and for personal use only. Anyway, here's how I imagine it might have happened.

Star Trek 2009 - with Shatner Cameo/Coda

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[Emperor-Tiberius]

So, not very good, then? Consensus?