Hmm... the problem there is that Love and Monsters is brilliant.
Unlike the last classic Who story I watched, The Underwater Menace.
Last Classic Who Story you watched
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Hmm... the problem there is that Love and Monsters is brilliant.
Unlike the last classic Who story I watched, The Underwater Menace.
I think we have very, very different definitions of the word brilliant
Anyway, on topic, I watched the first episode of Frontier in Space. It was a bit slow and mostly filled with stuff you'll see a million times in Classic Who, but it wasn't bad and its got 5 episodes to do its own thing. The fact that its Delgado's last story makes it interesting for that at the very least.
The Doctor and companion stuck on a human spaceship or space station at some point in the future, humans and aliens having a conflict, the Doctor and companion get captured and escape every five minutes, some plot by the aliens and probably one of the humans on the "good" side, etc. I'm not sure how much it had been used to this point in the series (although I've seen every 3rd Doctor story to this point and a few after it), but taking all of the Classic Who stories I've seen up until this point into account its a fairly typical set up.
There are differences in detail, sometimes huge differences, but a lot of the standard cliches. Its not necessarily a bad thing to have repeating tropes (I do like Classic Who a lot in general), but I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of Classic Who doing "on a space ship in the future" stories at this point, not that there haven't been some great stories with that style.
Episode 2 of Frontier in Space was so boring I thought time had stopped and I was trapped in some kind of limbo, watching The Doctor get taken out of then put back in prison cells over and over and over. Its not quite at Ambassadors of Death levels of boredom, but its rapidly getting there. Episode 2 could have been 6 minutes long and accomplished all the things it needed to story wise. If Delgado doesn't show up in episode 3 I think I might just slip into a coma from sheer boredom.
I've been watching back over a lot of classic Who over the last couple of months. I started with the Fifth Doctor because he was 'my' Doctor when I was growing up, then progressed to Sixth and Seventh, watched the bloody awful Eight Doctor movie and then circled back to First Doctor - partly as a way of preparing for his 'return' in "Twice Upon a Time". I'm partway through Marco Polo now.
I am certainly finding it interesting to compare and contrast the very earliest Doctor Who stories with modern Who. I'm sure I don't have any particular insights that haven't been said a million times before, but some of the classic tropes are there from the very beginning, and some things are surprisingly different. Obviously one big difference is the sheer pace - stories stretched out over seven or more episodes, the modern equivalent of a more-than-three-parter. And the Doctor himself is off-screen a surprising amount of the time. Plus of course he's such a grumpy old git, it' s strange to think that such an outwardly unpleasant character (as he was at first) would end up being embraced by a nation for more than half a century.
As for the others, I found the Fifth Doctor era to be pleasant but disappointingly repetitive, the Sixth Doctor to be nowhere near as bad as people say, and the Seventh Doctor era to be surprisingly excellent. That Eighth Doctor movie was still bloody awful though.
I am certainly finding it interesting to compare and contrast the very earliest Doctor Who stories with modern Who. I'm sure I don't have any particular insights that haven't been said a million times before, but some of the classic tropes are there from the very beginning, and some things are surprisingly different. Obviously one big difference is the sheer pace - stories stretched out over seven or more episodes, the modern equivalent of a more-than-three-parter. And the Doctor himself is off-screen a surprising amount of the time. Plus of course he's such a grumpy old git, it' s strange to think that such an outwardly unpleasant character (as he was at first) would end up being embraced by a nation for more than half a century.
As for the others, I found the Fifth Doctor era to be pleasant but disappointingly repetitive, the Sixth Doctor to be nowhere near as bad as people say, and the Seventh Doctor era to be surprisingly excellent. That Eighth Doctor movie was still bloody awful though.
Partly that's because of the intensive shooting schedule, making one episode per week without breaks. It was necessary for all the cast members to take vacations during filming, so they'd be written out for two weeks at a time, getting separated from the rest and either not appearing at all or only appearing in pre-filmed inserts. For instance, the Doctor went on ahead of the rest of the party in "The Keys of Marinus," then Susan was sent off to (pre-filmed) Aztec private school in "The Aztecs," then Barbara inexplicably stayed behind on the Earth ship for part of "The Sensorites," then Ian got locked up in a (pre-filmed) separate cell from the others in "The Reign of Terror." In Hartnell's case, though, his increasingly poor health meant that he needed more vacation time than the others.
But it was also because the Doctor wasn't originally the lead character. Ian and Barbara were the heroes we were following, Susan was their young charge for the kids to identify with, and the Doctor was this mysterious, eccentric figure who got them into trouble and provided exposition. Basically the Doctor was Doc Brown to the others' Marty McFly. The show was named after him because he was the catalyst and the central mystery of the show, rather than its lead. That started to change as companions came and went and the Doctor became a more popular figure.
Oh, Hartnell was quite endearing when he chose to be. And he was eminently watchable even in his moments of prideful arrogance and anger. Plus he had great rapport with the show's young fans. He loved being the Doctor and being adored by children -- something he never would've expected to happen over most of his career playing tough drill sergeants and the like -- and it showed in his performance. He sometimes had trouble remembering the words, but when he was fully on his game, he was really something to behold.
The villain is so delightfully hammy. I could watch him all day long. But, I could never take him seriously.
It does so much wrong. It's way too continuity-heavy. It spends too much time on McCoy's Doctor, leaving less time for McGann to make the character his own. The temporal orbit stuff just... well, the show's done other dumb stuff, and this is among it.
It's one of my most watched Doctor Who stories anyway. McGann is wonderful, and McCoy's good, too. There are some funny bits, it looks good, the Tardis interior's magnificent, Daphne Ashbrook is the great companion we never had, and Eric Roberts is a nice change of pace from Anthony Ainley, without being as over the top as John Simm's when he first showed up.
It may make a difference that I wasn't a hardcore Who fan when the TV movie aired in 1996. I'd seen a few Pertwee and Tom Baker stories, and maybe a Davison or two; I'd read a few comics, an old episode guide, and one of the Target novels, and that was it. McGann is my Doctor, I guess. When I did get into Doctor Who in a big way in 2001, he was front and centre in the Eighth Doctor Adventures, he was the DWM comic strip Doctor, and he was in the Big Finish audios, too.
Yeah, the TV movie's flawed. But my Doctor Who experience -- not to mention my collection -- would be greatly diminished without it.
I like the McGann movie, although it definitely has problems that hurt it badly and made it inaccessible to new viewers. It should've started with Chang Lee in San Francisco, then introduced the Doctor through Chang and Grace as the viewpoint characters, so the audience would learn about it as they did -- i.e. the same method as "An Unearthly Child" and "Rose," not to mention some others like "Smith and Jones" and "The Pilot." The opening stuff could've been shown later in flashback, or they could've given McCoy's Doctor a bit more screentime with Chang before he got shot.
But for the most part, I think it worked pretty well. McGann was an excellent Doctor, and the film had a nicely cinematic style that was quite novel for Doctor Who at the time. I find it ironic that a lot of its attributes, including things it was panned for by Whovian purists at the time, went on to become standard parts of the new series -- a more cinematic, action-heavy style, Doctor-companion sexual tension, a big orchestral score, a title sequence featuring the TARDIS in the time vortex, etc.
But for the most part, I think it worked pretty well. McGann was an excellent Doctor, and the film had a nicely cinematic style that was quite novel for Doctor Who at the time. I find it ironic that a lot of its attributes, including things it was panned for by Whovian purists at the time, went on to become standard parts of the new series -- a more cinematic, action-heavy style, Doctor-companion sexual tension, a big orchestral score, a title sequence featuring the TARDIS in the time vortex, etc.
Meanwhile, I've popped in the DVD of The Mutants. I think I've seen this on VHS (I gave most of my Doctor Who VHS tapes to a friend once my DVD collection was reasonably complete) but I'm in part 2 and nothing much seems familar yet, though I think I remember some of what's coming up. It's Pertwee era, but it looks like a precursor to Blake's 7.
Good grief. According to IMDB, Pertwee, who in this one looks to be a fair bit older than me, was 53 when this one was filmed. I'm 54.
Good grief. According to IMDB, Pertwee, who in this one looks to be a fair bit older than me, was 53 when this one was filmed. I'm 54.
I think the TV Movie is halfway decent, if you look at it as a '90's version of OldWho. As a relaunch, its spectacularly confusing. It probably would've helped enormously if the Master had opened the film, as was originally intended to, rather than the Eighth...
Whereas I see it as a prototype of the new series in its production and storytelling style, as discussed above. Indeed, the problem some old-school fans had with it at the time was that it was too different from the old series -- although my counterargument to them was that the old series changed just as radically between its beginning and end, just more gradually rather than all at once.
It's not really the production style or the acting that I have a problem with. As you say, it seems to serve as a prototype for NuWho in many ways. Action scenes, love interests, I don't even hate the American master, although he's no Missy.
I just think the movie is spectacularly badly written. A massive exposition drop as the very first line of dialogue. Having the lead character change his entire body half way through the story. Not sticking to its own rules of time travel even within the same story. Anviliciously paralleling the Doctor's rebirth with the Master's rebirth with friggin Frankenstein in case we didn't get it already. The amnesia that serves no story purpose whatsoever. The whole half-human thing. It's just bad. There's no subtlety to it at all.
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I just think the movie is spectacularly badly written. A massive exposition drop as the very first line of dialogue. Having the lead character change his entire body half way through the story. Not sticking to its own rules of time travel even within the same story. Anviliciously paralleling the Doctor's rebirth with the Master's rebirth with friggin Frankenstein in case we didn't get it already. The amnesia that serves no story purpose whatsoever. The whole half-human thing. It's just bad. There's no subtlety to it at all.
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I think the good outweighs the bad. Definitely it overdid the continuity ties in the opening, as if it were trying too hard to reassure classic fans that it was a continuation, when its focus should've been on making the story accessible to new fans. But at the time, I did appreciate that it was a continuation, that it tied in so well to old continuity rather than starting from scratch. So that wasn't all bad. And once you got past the structural flaws, it was a pretty entertaining adventure. It's not like Classic Who always made that much sense or followed any consistent time-travel logic.
As for the amnesia, the Second Doctor wasn't even sure he was the Doctor at first, talking about the Doctor as if he were a separate person and having trouble remembering things. Most new Doctors overcame their initial confusion pretty quickly, but this was an unusually fraught regeneration which almost failed due to Grace's misguided medical intervention, and the Doctor was clinically dead for some time before regeneration kicked in. So it's logical that he had a harder time adjusting. Story-wise, the amnesia helped at doing what the movie should have done from the start: creating a mystery for new viewers (Doctor who?) and revealing the answers gradually rather than in one huge, confusing infodump. It also gave the Doctor a reason to seek Grace's help, and allowed the Master more time to enact his plans without the Doctor remembering he was out there. So it serves a number of story purposes.
The half-human thing gets blown out of proportion. People forget the way it happened: The Doctor was about to tell Grace something in strict confidence, something he made her promise not to tell anyone. Then some stranger showed up and Grace (incredibly rudely) told him that the Doctor had been about to share a secret. And the Doctor then told this random stranger the "half human on my mother's side" line. Now, does it make sense that that was the actual secret he'd been about to tell Grace in strict confidence a moment before, the thing he didn't want anyone else to hear? No. So it's probably just a joke he told instead of the real secret. Sure, there was that thing later about the Eye of Harmony needing a human eye pattern to open it, but I've heard some good rationalizations for that, like how maybe the Doctor encoded it for a human companion as an extra security feature.
I beg to differ.
+McGann's on good form, definitely had an early feel for the Doctor, and the audios feel consistent with this characterization.
+McCoy's last moments in the TARDIS are lovely, and a much better send-off than Colin Baker received.
+The TARDIS looks AMAZING, and the production design is fantastic. Its definitely more big-budget than anything in the old show, almost.
+Some nice humorous moments here and there.
+Grace is a fine character, but I'm glad she didn't become a companion.
-The Master... just no.
-Half-human... why?
-The plot... I still don't understand what happened, and I watched Nash's review of it again not less than a week ago.
The overall writing reeks of OldWho... hospital clerks who are either ignorant jerks or just plain idiots, implausible situations are nonsensically resolved. And when a fan who's never watched it before sits down to watch this, he has to resolve that this Doctor is an alien who travels alone in his TARDIS but is carrying the remains of his enemy who was exterminated by the Daleks in a trial.... what?! Seriously, to me, the TV Movie always felt like three episodes stitched together - McCoy's last and McGann's first two. Kinda like watching Part IV of Logopolis along with the entirety of Castrovalva!
It wasn't bad for fans of the show, no. And again, if you watch it as a continuation rather than a relaunch, it works fine. Its cheesy and overblown, but a lot of Doctor Who always has been, both new and old. But it utterly fails as an introduction to the character, his world and his wonder. Spearhead from Space is way as a relaunch, and it was a regular serial.
As presented, its definitely in-line with what's gone before, even if a bit overdone. But the difference is, you wanted Grace to learn about the Doctor as if she was the new viewer, the one who'd never seen the show. As such, she should've been the focus of the movie.
Show all the events from her perspective, and maybe even have her present in his regeneration, so we, the audience, could witness this character transform before us. It'd have sold the story a lot more easily overseas.
But it was still an unecessary hook for the new audience, to make them relate to a partially human alien, as they might feared that an actual alien might not be enough to sell the project. Its a huge complaint from me, because its a basic betrayal of the character - its like trying to sell Star Trek in any other country by saying Kirk and Bones are German/French/Greek/whatever so the given crowd can buy into their adventures. The Doctor's an alien - period.
Yeah, Big Finish went out its way to do so, having the Sixth Doctor use Evelyn's human DNA as a safety feature or something (I don't remember the details, but I do know it was from one of their stories together).
That's fine. We don't have to agree on a matter of taste.
Honestly, I didn't care for the redesign, or for the retro/offbeat look of the Eccleston/Tennant and early Smith consoles. I like my TARDIS interiors clean and high-tech, like the JNT-era console room or the current version.
I dunno... As I said, I think if it had been re-edited to start off in San Francisco, it would've ended up a lot like "Rose" -- the human main character encounters this mysterious figure, only gradually learns the beginnings of who he is, and has an Earthbound adventure with him before he goes off into space and time -- the difference being that Grace and Chang Lee didn't agree to come with him. As I've said, I agree it has major flaws, but I can see the potential it had and focus on that.
As I said, it was a throwaway line that, in context, was unlikely to have been meant in earnest, so I think people overreact to it. But at the time, before I realized that, I thought it kind of made sense, in a way. It helped explain why the Doctor was so preoccupied with humanity, out of all the species in the universe. I never liked the idea that we were just intrinsically special somehow, that we were better than other species -- that smacks too much of ugly racial-supremacist ideologies. If the Doctor had been half-human, it would've made his focus on humanity more understandable. And maybe it could've given a new angle on why he was an outcast from his people, although that is a bit Spockish.
Honestly, I think the movie is ok, with more positives then negatives but the negatives are pretty bad. The story isn't great, but its not the worst. If they dropped the mostly pointless guy from the story (after The Doctor gets shot you really don't need to keep the random guy around as the Master's sidekick), had a better actor to play The master, wrote the master with about 345% less camp (seriously, even if Roberts was a better actor the writing would have had even the most restrained actor chewing the scenery in a way even my favorite master, Ainley, never did), and dropped some of the stupider bits (like "half human"), it would have been a solid story.
As it is, I think its an ok story with a great Doctor, and (as a bonus) as someone who finds the 7th Doctor's era to be the weakest in Classic Who I can't say I don't get perverse pleasure from seeing him die of medical malpractice instead of some grand finale
As it is, I think its an ok story with a great Doctor, and (as a bonus) as someone who finds the 7th Doctor's era to be the weakest in Classic Who I can't say I don't get perverse pleasure from seeing him die of medical malpractice instead of some grand finale
Anyone read Philip Segal and Gary Russell's book Regeneration, about the making of the TV movie? If there's one key thing to learn from that book (and it's one of my favourite nonfiction Doctor Who books) it's how incredibly worse the TV movie could have been.
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