The Defenders--Marvel/Netflix
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
- Start date
I liked it too for the most part, but it's hard to deny it had some rather deep and obvious flaws. Most of which I suspect were down to a compressed schedule, but at the end of the day, it's the quality of the final product that really matters and compared to everything else they've done in this mini-MCU, it is pretty lacklustre.Eh, Iron Fist is still one of my favourite Netflix Marvels, I enjoyed it as much as Jess Jones and the first half of Luke Cage.
Well that's nice to hear. At this point I mostly just want to see Luke Cage beat up and berate the Iron Hipster. One thing I don't see mentioned, but I'm hoping, is that The Defenders has a real fight choreographer and hires actually talented people on the camera work/ stunt work side of things for the (hopefully few) times Iron Hipster has to fight someone. Basically if we can avoid the 52 camera cuts in 12 seconds (or whatever it was, I know it wasn't quite as bad as 12 seconds and more like 30 seconds) and actually show fighting instead of having to obscure it because its so shit I can deal with Rand's horrible character and incompetent actor.
Basically I hope the fighting is done by people of comparable skill to the people in charge of Daredevil's fight scenes and not the terrible Iron Fist stuff or the nonexistent fighting of Jessica Jones (maybe she'll do more then slowly push people in this show, because Luke certainly got more bad ass on his show when they had real stunts/scenes that took advantage of his abilities which JJ didn't do for him or the title character).
I'll admit to not watching Iron Fist but of the reviews I have read he appears to still be a bit of a problem in the mix of the show and drags it down here and there, which doesn't bode well.
I agree with @kirk55555 that I'd love to have the stunt co-coordinators for Daredevil running the action for this show, but it always had an upper hand over the likes of JJ and LC in that when fighting, Murdock typically was wearing some form of mask, which gave them more freedom allowing them to have more stunt men stand in for Cox. It's apparent that in the trailers for The Defenders, though not in full Daredevil outfit, Murdoch is seen wearing a head covering that gives them a little more play.
When it comes to JJ and LC I rather enjoyed the unchoreographed approach to the action. Specifically JJ, which was never really designed to be an action show per se and as a character she was either (a) never interested in "training" to be a proper superhero, (b) was waaayyy out of practise, or (c) was too drunk to do a series of flipping kicks. I think the rather clumsy choreography added to the feel of the show. I can't attest to that being the intention, but accident or no, it worked for me.
Though I am not one for minutiae or canon/comic adherence, I do think Scott Buck and his team dropped the ball by not giving Danny his mask. I understand (though don't quite swallow) his choice that "Danny hadn't earned it", but from a sheer practical point of view, putting him in some form of face covering gives them the latitude to have more stuntmen on the set and stops the reliance on Jones carrying all of the action beats.
The Defenders would be the perfect place to give him a mask, once they actually realise that they are "goddamn heroes", street level or not. I guess we shall see.
I look forward to seeing more of JJ and LC verbally sparring off one another and hope that LC and IF get bromancing by its end
Hugo - Hopes Sigourney is a good scenery chewer
I agree with @kirk55555 that I'd love to have the stunt co-coordinators for Daredevil running the action for this show, but it always had an upper hand over the likes of JJ and LC in that when fighting, Murdock typically was wearing some form of mask, which gave them more freedom allowing them to have more stunt men stand in for Cox. It's apparent that in the trailers for The Defenders, though not in full Daredevil outfit, Murdoch is seen wearing a head covering that gives them a little more play.
When it comes to JJ and LC I rather enjoyed the unchoreographed approach to the action. Specifically JJ, which was never really designed to be an action show per se and as a character she was either (a) never interested in "training" to be a proper superhero, (b) was waaayyy out of practise, or (c) was too drunk to do a series of flipping kicks. I think the rather clumsy choreography added to the feel of the show. I can't attest to that being the intention, but accident or no, it worked for me.
Though I am not one for minutiae or canon/comic adherence, I do think Scott Buck and his team dropped the ball by not giving Danny his mask. I understand (though don't quite swallow) his choice that "Danny hadn't earned it", but from a sheer practical point of view, putting him in some form of face covering gives them the latitude to have more stuntmen on the set and stops the reliance on Jones carrying all of the action beats.
The Defenders would be the perfect place to give him a mask, once they actually realise that they are "goddamn heroes", street level or not. I guess we shall see.
I look forward to seeing more of JJ and LC verbally sparring off one another and hope that LC and IF get bromancing by its end
Hugo - Hopes Sigourney is a good scenery chewer
The fight scenes in Jessica Jones were lacking. Luke Cage's on the other hand, while not up to Daredevil, was still decent. And having just binged Iron Fist, I can only say that people deriding Iron Fist had some seriously high standards. I enjoyed it, and the fight scenes as well.
I'd say they did the job they were meant to do. JJ wasn't a stunt showcase, it was a story driven by character and emotion. And Jessica was a superstrong character whose opponents had normal human strength, as was Luke. It made sense that their fights were over very quickly. (Which is actually pretty realistic. Real-life fights often last mere seconds.) And the simplicity of Jessica's and Luke's fight choreography makes a good contrast with the more elaborate martial arts of the other two. The one show whose fight scenes were "lacking" relative to what they were aiming for was Iron Fist. Only the episode directed by Kevin Tancharoen (#8) really achieved the level of martial-arts choreography that the whole season should've had.
You missed my point. Luke Cage's show's choreography while simple still entertained me. And Luke on occasion showed some decent skill, unlike he did in JJ except for the bar fight, which does makes sense since was a former cop,Marine and boxer.
JJ on the other hand, fought like someone who's barely had a fight. I just couldn't believe anyone in her line of work could be that incompetant in fighting
Sorry, but I think you're the one who's missing the point. She's superstrong. She doesn't have to be a good fighter, because from her perspective, everyone around her is as feeble as a toddler and buildings are made of balsa wood. Plus, as mentioned in the other thread, she's usually not dealing with the same kinds of adversaries that people like Daredevil or Iron Fist take on. The fact that Jessica Jones is not a superhero (or, in the comics, is a retired superhero) is the whole point of her character. And fight choreography should serve character.
Indeed. "Doing combat" and other similar fancy super-heroics is pretty much the antithesis of everything Jessica stands for. I'd even say the marked lack of choreography is one of the show's most endearing features.
Come to think of it, for someone that can tie iron bars into knots, Jessica seems to rely on her whits and guile much more than her fists.
I wasn't really bothered by how they handled the action in Jessica Jones. Like Christopher and Reverend said, she wasn't supposed to be some big martial artist, and she wasn't really a trained fighter at all. So she pretty much just did what she could to take out her enemies.
I liked the action scenes in Luke Cage, they weren't the big martial arts fights of Daredevil, but I thought they worked for Luke and the situations he was in.
I liked the action scenes in Luke Cage, they weren't the big martial arts fights of Daredevil, but I thought they worked for Luke and the situations he was in.
To me it wasn't that she didn't do fancy fighting, it was that she barely ever fought and when she did it was stuff you would have seen in Wonder Woman in the 70s (meaning lightly shoving someone who then acts/gets pulled on strings to look like they flew 10+ feet from a gentle shove). Even Luke was treated like basically a normal guy except bulletproof on her show. If someone has super strength, let them show it. Pick someone up with one hand and hurl them through the ceiling. Throw a table at some one. Anything but disinterestedly shoving people once or twice over the course of 13 episodes. Even what she did in the last episode was something completely unpowered action heroes have been doing since the 80s. In the comics Jessica Jones can really throw down when needed. in her show the lack of action in general was made worse when the little bit of action was treated as an afterthought by everyone involved. I mean, I'd still take it over the 12,000 cuts a minute half-assed Iron Fist stuff, but it wasn't good.
Luke Cage's show did it a lot better. Luke, while way too powered down from the comic version in my opinion, still did some very impressive things (like his assault on the gang place with the car door). Luke and Jessica don't need finesse in their fighting. They just need to impressively beat the crap out of normal people they fight. Be big and loud over quit and skilled while fighting, basically. Kind of like comparing Hulk to Captain America, although on a toned down scale obviously.
Luke Cage's show did it a lot better. Luke, while way too powered down from the comic version in my opinion, still did some very impressive things (like his assault on the gang place with the car door). Luke and Jessica don't need finesse in their fighting. They just need to impressively beat the crap out of normal people they fight. Be big and loud over quit and skilled while fighting, basically. Kind of like comparing Hulk to Captain America, although on a toned down scale obviously.
Okay. I confess. I get what you are saying. What my problem really is wishing the fights in JJ were a bit more entertaining.