Weight classes of Federation starships - re-examined
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
- Start date
Yes, making it clear that the Constitution has never really been the top end of SF's capabilities, even prior to the advent of nuTrek
In two out of the three, and both in situations where they could not possibly have been accurate representations of what the ship really looked like (most explicitly in TSFS, where where the TOS ship is used to represent the refit Enterprise in a graphic).
What do the Constitution's capabilities have to do with the FJ ships shown in on-screen graphics?
Not sure I understand the question.
The FJ graphics show ship classes which are larger than the Constitution, ships which are shown to exist in universe by the very fact they are being shown on screen.
Ergo SF has the capability to build ships larger than Constitution class ships even in Prime 23rd century and have done so.
I didn't mention the Constitution's capabilities......
I misunderstood then. Thanks for the clarification.
But nobody argued against that. FJ's Federation-class dreadnoughts are only slightly bigger than the Constitution and nowhere near the size of the JJprise and Vengeance behemoths.
Granted, but throughout this thread their canonicity has been mentioned repeatedly as having bearing on the assumption the Constitution was the largest class in the Prime 23rd. If that assumption is shown to be null and void even prior to the advent of NuTrek it paves the way for such vast classes at least being a possibility, especially in light of the Kelvin existing pre Nerada and thus being "Prime"
You're not right. As I already said, the ships are too long as well as too massive, even with the updated size figures.
I hope you're not, but I don't know you well enough to say. What I get from you here is that you're bright and interesting, but you like being rude, and therefore less interesting.
No, because WE could build larger ships if we wanted to, but we don't, and they didn't in TOS. You're, again, byzantine explanation for why JJ's are larger than TOS' was fun to surf through, but doesn't account for why aliens also have larger ships and why the entire universe is so radically different from TOS, in JJ's universe and Discovery's. That they pay lip service to making things fit doesn't mean it does.
The post, not the poster.
But that's not what you said. You said the USS Kelvin was "bigger than the Enterprise-D." That is factually incorrect, as length ≠ size.
The only class of starship we ever saw in TOS was the Constitution class. So the only factual statement you can make is that they didn't build a larger version of the Constitution class in TOS. You have NO IDEA what other starship classes existed in that time period, because the 1960s TV budget couldn't afford to show them and the 1980s films (arguably) couldn't either.
Even the USS Excelsior was originally conceived as a much larger vessel than it ended up being; the details of the Search for Spock version imply a ship almost 600 meters long, as do the scenes in TNG where it appears side by side with the Enterprise-D. It was later re-detailed for TUC with surface details consistent with a much smaller size.
So strictly speaking, you're making an argument from absence that is itself totally dependent on inconsistent data.
You're right, aliens never had larger ships in TOS...
... right?
It's not radically different. It just LOOKS that way.
It fits because they SAY it fits. Artistic license is a thing. Fan license is not.
Crazy Eddie said:
We were also never explicitly told that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't actually control everything.
Ships are often, if not usually presented out of scale. Should we also discuss the sound in space and the latex aliens? The styrofoam sets and the camera angles? The argument I'm making is one of consistency with the things in-universe, not out.
You're right, aliens never had larger ships in TOS...
... right?
Right. The occasional super alien aside, aliens DID NOT HAVE such large starships either. The Klingons were sized-up in '09 as well, as, I think, were ships in the expanded universe. As will likely be others that can't be explained by the Narada ahead. The Protohumanoids were an attempt to address the overabundance of humanoids on Trek, but you see a lot more throughout the galaxy/ies than they alone can realistically permit for. One looks past it because it's a TV show, but you KNOW the deal, and you appreciate the attempt more than buy it.
Exactly. You can call a dinosaur a duck; it remains a dinosaur.
