Tim found having an opinion on episodic sci-fi didn't work well with being the leader of a progressive political party, cos we aren't as liberal as we like to think.
Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed
- Thread starter captainkirk
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Tim found having an opinion on episodic sci-fi didn't work well with being the leader of a progressive political party, cos we aren't as liberal as we like to think.
I've mentioned it maybe eleventy billion times on here, but I kind of wished DSC (or any future show) would be set in a third timeline, separate from the Prime and Kelvin Timelines. You could kind of have the best of both worlds. A "have your cake and eat it too" approach. Use the general narrative of the Prime Timeline as your guideline for what has happened and what will happen, but visually aim for more of a Kelvin Timeline look. And at the same time, you could add in new ideas (both story-wise and visually) without fear of treading on anything previously established in the Prime or Kelvin timelines. The TNG episode "Parallels" already gives you an in-universe explanation on how it all works as it revealed that there are an infinite number of alternate timelines, not just the Prime, antimatter, Mirror, etc.
If we look at some of the "Single story-arc" examples on TV (and streaming TV), we can see that even though the overall story being told takes an entire season to be told, each episode is constructed (dramatically speaking) with a beginning, middle, and end to the episode. They may not be totally stand-alone one offs, but they are not simply a random 60 minutes of story extracted from a 10 hour or 15 hour long story, either.
The examples (past and present) I'm thinking of are Stranger Things, The Expanse, Fargo, Man in the High Castle, Better Call Saul, Breaking Bad, American Horror Story, Colony, 12 Monkeys, and the like. Other examples are the (IMO) lesser-quality-but-still-fun SyFy channel shows such as Dark Matter and Killjoys.
Each of those are certainly examples of long story arc shows, but at the same time, each episode of those shows has a separate chapter-like construction to them -- they are NOT constructed as if they are just a random part of the whole story.
In most cases of the examples above, each episode has its own theme running through it that binds it together as a distinct episode -- or at least a distinct chapter.
So why can't DSC be constructed like those shows?
I hope so. C'mon Tim; we're all counting on you!
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One of my greatest disappointments in that show.RDM's BSG is probably the WORST example, because honestly the writers had no real plan - and yes in the last season they TRIED tom tie all the randomness of previous seasons and lead up to the (largely dissapointing) finale; but the team even admitted - THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PLAN.
I would say The Expanse is at the opposite end of the spectrum. It's a good show, but it's too serialized for my taste. Each episode is a direct continuation of the previous one. I really hate that, becasue I feel cheated out of all the time I spent watching the show. They could have just compressed it down to a feature length movie. I can't recall any particular story for any particular episode. It's just one story chopped into pieces.
It's the same reason I don't watch movies in 3D. While there may be a difference when I'm watching it, when I remember a 2D movie my memories are in 3D. So why pay the extra money? If an entire season is remembered as one story, why waste the extra time?
I think Firefly has a good balance on the episodic side and Jericho has a good balance on the serialized side.
It's the same reason I don't watch movies in 3D. While there may be a difference when I'm watching it, when I remember a 2D movie my memories are in 3D. So why pay the extra money? If an entire season is remembered as one story, why waste the extra time?
I think Firefly has a good balance on the episodic side and Jericho has a good balance on the serialized side.
You would have hated the entertainment of the first half of the 20th Century. ( and a good chunk of the 19th).
Because many of them are. In Discovery's case, what have we to go on? Well, they've(yes, them) said that Discovery's format will be like Game of Thrones; a show where every episode is a cliffhanger, and doesn't have a beginning, middle, and end. It's going to be heavily serialized. This season will be like a book, each episode a chapter. "They've" said this also.
You would have hated the entertainment of the first half of the 20th Century. ( and a good chunk of the 19th).
Yeah, but a chapter of Rocky Jones Space Ranger is only 26 minutes and a whole episode is about three chapters. So that's about an hour and 15 minutes per story. While the ten episode season, single story of The Expanse is 7 hours.
So it's a matter of time management?
I guess more like time investment per story memorial.
How much time am I willing to invest per story? I could sit through seven hours of Star Trek and get eight and a half stories. Or seven hours of I Love Lucy and get almost 16 different stories. Whereas watching all seven hours of The Expanse I just get one story. Granted, The Expanse is MUCH MORE epic in its scale. However, that doesn't change the fact that at the end of seasons one I was left with a feeling of "why did I spend seven hours watching this?" Thinking back on each season it just doesn't feel like seven hours worth of stuff happens.
Compare that with Jericho which is a bit more episodic. There were things that made each episode unique enough that it seemed there was more value for time invested. Season two is a bit less so.
Clearly this is subjective. But I just want to feel that through my memories of the episodes, the time invested was worth it.
Does it really matter how many "stories" there are as long as it's good? Is a short story collection better than a novel?
It's a matter if Tim management...
Tim's one hell of a manager.
I would say The Expanse is a good story. But it didn't feel like there were seven hours worth of memorable events.
I've enjoyed the books and the TV. Felt there were more than enough events in both. TV is probably the best format to adapt a novel.
It's not the story, it's the characters. Give me a by the numbers story and interesting characters and I'll be willing to invest in the time.
Tim can argue with me all he wants.
Tim can argue with me all he wants.
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Honestly, I think that is exactly what they are doing. Visual style is influenced by Kelvin timeline movies, and the inclusion of Sarek, Mudd, etc. is bound to create some inconsistencies in canon. Not to mention different storytelling and serialized approach. So it will be similar to Prime timeline, but still different. They just don't want to admit it because of fan reaction and marketing (IMO).
My faith is in Tim also.RDM's BSG is probably the WORST example, because honestly the writers had no real plan - and yes in the last season they TRIED tom tie all the randomness of previous seasons and lead up to the (largely dissapointing) finale; but the team even admitted - THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PLAN.
Here's the thing - they have 15 episodes to tell whatever story they're telling this season. Maybe they'll do a 'one off callback' episode that is in the vein of classic TOS (in that it's a stand alone self contained story); but I'll be honest and say I wouldn't expect it.
Tim will tell.
The no plan of BSG though... that works for me. But the type of stuff I've written would be developed by an end result I wanted, but the actual playing out was mostly played by ear; 90% of plans I'd have would change on audience reaction and a natural evolution of an idea. more often than not the ending to a story would change as there'd be a better idea somewhere in the middle, or I'd get a reaction or moment I didn't expect.
I don't see flying blind as being a bad thing; it sometimes works better letting ideas 'live' as you play them out than sticking to a rigid plan of action.
On a complete sidenote: I've never really seen the issue with the finale. It ended exactly where it should have in terms of their final destination, and what led them thee, and had some brilliant sequences. A nice heroes ending.
I too liked the ending.
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