(US) Do you support a $15 minimum wage?

[Kai "the spy"]

This might give those people arguing against the minimum wage raise a stroke, but ...

Hawaii is evaluating the prospects of Universal Basic Income.

Fuck, yeah!

 

[Balok's Decoy]

This might give those people arguing against the minimum wage raise a stroke, but ...

Hawaii is evaluating the prospects of Universal Basic Income.

Fuck, yeah!

I find it interesting (weird? amusing?) that there are Trek fans who would find such things offensive or ridiculous, given that society in Star Trek basically provides things like universal basic income, universal healthcare, free services, etc.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I find it interesting (weird? amusing?) that there are Trek fans who would find such things offensive or ridiculous, given that society in Star Trek basically provides things like universal basic income, universal healthcare, free services, etc.

Their argument is generally "we're not there yet." But I suspect we'll never be "there" until somebody just does it.

 

[suarezguy]

I have a question for people who don't believe the minimum wage should be increased? Should we freeze prices or even put a cap on certain goods to stop the price gauging? How can anyone reasonable believe in the idea that it is okay for salaries to stay the same while prices go up, every year?
I'm not all that great at math but even I know that if I have 50 dollars to spend on food and food costs 50 one year, 60 the next, and 70 the following year and on and on it goes but I still only have 50 I am going to be in some trouble when it comes to eating.

Certainly in practice and even theoretically it is the job of the government to greatly limit inflation, especially in essential good markets like food, and a government that had a 20% increase in food prices in a year would be grossly inept; I believe the U.S. hasn't seen anywhere near that inflation, in general or for food.

 

[Jayson1]

Certainly in practice and even theoretically it is the job of the government to greatly limit inflation, especially in essential good markets like food, and a government that had a 20% increase in food prices in a year would be grossly inept; I believe the U.S. hasn't seen anywhere near that inflation, in general or for food.

Problem is as I see it is not just that food goes up a little but everything else also goes up. I extra 10 dollars for food might not seem so bad but then you also have things like rent,utlities,medical costs and so forth. Then you got the unexpected things like a toilet that needs to be fixed or a car that stops working or worst you end up getting cancer or some other horrible disease.

Jason

 

[Relayer1]

I find it interesting (weird? amusing?) that there are Trek fans who would find such things offensive or ridiculous, given that society in Star Trek basically provides things like universal basic income, universal healthcare, free services, etc.

UBI is inevitable - automation will either make a large percentage of the workforce unemployed in the near(ish) future or result in everyone working drastically decreased hours.

A surplus of labour of that magnitude will need a lot more than an increase in the minimum wage. Either workers will have to job share and employers will have to pay full salaries for a few hours work per week OR taxes will have to go up to cover a flat rate income paid to all citizens.

Either way a change in attitude is necessary.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Their argument is generally "we're not there yet." But I suspect we'll never be "there" until somebody just does it.

I guess that's an argument they could make, although their resentment and disgust at what they have "earned" being stolen by leeches doesn't square with the idea of a fair and equal society where everyone is provided for.

 

[Amaris]

I guess that's an argument they could make, although their resentment and disgust at what they have "earned" being stolen by leeches doesn't square with the idea of a fair and equal society where everyone is provided for.

Because they think they're captaining their own starship, not helping the guys at the local veterinary medical facility shovel seaweed into a whale recovery tank. The future only looks good for them if they're on top, commanding. If not, then the future sucks.

 

[BillJ]

We now have NBA players sign contracts worth $40 million dollars a year and are part of a class that continues to see its tax burden dwindle. But hey, paying people enough for basic necessities is the thing some folks are outraged about.

 

[suarezguy]

How much do you think their tax burden should be increased to or do you just want it to not be decreased?

 

[BillJ]

How much do you think their tax burden should be increased to or do you just want it to not be decreased?

It should be representative of what they get from society. They don't make $40 million a year without roads, police protection, air traffic control and facilities, and other things that the government pays for.

No one makes humongous sums of money in a vacuum.

 

[scotthm]

It should be representative of what they get from society. They don't make $40 million a year without roads, police protection, air traffic control and facilities, and other things that the government pays for.

Then you're in favor of a flat tax, where every American pays the same share? Because we all use the things the government provides.
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[MacLeod]

The problem with a flat rate of tax is that it hurts the poorer people in society.

 

[BillJ]

Then you're in favor of a flat tax, where every American pays the same share? Because we all use the things the government provides.
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Nope. Because those things aren't worth the same amount to different people. The more money you make, the more vested you should be in making sure things work.

Blake Griffen misses a game check, that's half-a-million dollars he's missing. A minimum wage worker misses a day, that's $51. A flat tax penalizes those at the lowest levels of revenue.

Taxes are good for the economy. The government spends the money it gets. While the rich and corporations sit on cash.

 

[Mattadd]

Not going to read through 20 pages but I'll chime in my piece. I'm not American but I am Canadian and we've also been having this conversation, and it's particularly relevant now that both Ontario and Alberta have now committed to $15/hour by 2019.

At first I was very skeptical about this, the logical conclusion simply seems to be business will have to raise their prices to compensate and essentially the whole exercise will have made no difference. And I suppose this is still a possibility, with perhaps short-term job losses (the market will undoubtedly adjust quickly though) but there seems to be little downside to giving it a try and just seeing if it will work. That being said I'm glad I'm living in a province that's not doing it so I can see how it works there before the we jump on board.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Not going to read through 20 pages but I'll chime in my piece. I'm not American but I am Canadian and we've also been having this conversation, and it's particularly relevant now that both Ontario and Alberta have now committed to $15/hour by 2019.

At first I was very skeptical about this, the logical conclusion simply seems to be business will have to raise their prices to compensate and essentially the whole exercise will have made no difference. And I suppose this is still a possibility, with perhaps short-term job losses (the market will undoubtedly adjust quickly though) but there seems to be little downside to giving it a try and just seeing if it will work. That being said I'm glad I'm living in a province that's not doing it so I can see how it works there before the we jump on board.

Leave it to the Canadian to not be a dick about it.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think increasing the minimum wage will hurt people. Places like Mcdonalds already have plans for automated ordering systems that will eliminate the need for as many people. Small businesses will struggle to pay employees that much and will have to hire less.

Personally, I have a bachelors degree and a job that pays a little more than the proposed minimum wage. I still need two incomes to afford rent on a mediocre apartment in this state. If the minimum wage increases from $8.44 to $15, am increase of over 75%, will I get a 75% increase in my pay as well?

 

[Mattadd]

If the minimum wage increases from $8.44 to $15, am increase of over 75%, will I get a 75% increase in my pay as well?

In theory, yes. Not the whole 75% but most of it. Alberta started their drive to $15/hour in 2015, aiming to be complete by 2019. Thing is very few people in Alberta make minimum wage, but lots of people make something between the minimum as $15. As the minimum wage has gone up $1 in 2016 and again in 2017, all companies that I've heard of gave raises to their employees making above the minimum to keep the pay scale. Not the full amount but most of it.

 

[MacLeod]

I think increasing the minimum wage will hurt people. Places like Mcdonalds already have plans for automated ordering systems that will eliminate the need for as many people. Small businesses will struggle to pay employees that much and will have to hire less.

Personally, I have a bachelors degree and a job that pays a little more than the proposed minimum wage. I still need two incomes to afford rent on a mediocre apartment in this state. If the minimum wage increases from $8.44 to $15, am increase of over 75%, will I get a 75% increase in my pay as well?

Sure the ones earning just slightly over any minimum wage tend to lose out as the pay gap narrows as they don't get aywhere near close o a similar rise.

But then surely the argument should not be that those earning less don't deserve the minimum wage but that others towards the lower end of the pay scale should get a decent percentage rise as well.

 

[Mattadd]

Leave it to the Canadian to not be a dick about it.

The situation also isn't as dire in Canada. The minimum wage is already much higher than it is in the US, and Canada has the richest middle class in the world so the inequality problems are slightly lessened. It seems to be more of a total crisis in the US.