There is a reason the word fan comes from the word fanatic.....
Was it ever really possible to do a pure prime prequel in the "TOS" era?
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
I agree that they didn't set out to destroy canon or anything like that. I think they are trying to make the best show they think a modern audience will like, but my argument is the setting they chose makes it impossible for the show to ever fit in naturally with the prime universe.
To me, and I have said this in other post, but time gaps between shows are really the only way to reinvent the look and still kind of make it fit in the prime universe. The 80 year gap between TOS and TNG and what I think was another 60 to 80 year gap between Enterprise and TOS.
When you set something so close as 10 years, it means people are going expect similar tech,look and even established characters played by the original actors. If someone thinks you can't update the 60s stuff to look modern then putting a show in that era is a mistake if they really did care about making the show part of the prime universe, which I don't think they do.
I do know that TMP is supose to be 3 years after TOS and frankly that was a dumb idea but what saves it is you got all the original actors back and on the outside the Enterprise still looks like Enterprise, just a little more detailed. Plus your going from a show to a movie and also canon just wasn't something people cared about like they did because Trek hadn't gotten to the point it did with TNG,DS9 and Voyager where you basically had a shared universe for all 3 shows and even though their was a distance between them from TOS you still found something of connection with having almost all the TOS characters on one of those shows or movies. You even had a few love letter episodes towards those shows such as "Relics", "Trials and Triblutions", The Sulu ep on "Voyager."
Best thing "Discovery" can do is bring in old and favorite characters played by new actors, which are things that will be fun to see but once again won't make it feel like it's in the Prime Universe.
Also what I want to know is if canon isn't important then why not just say the Kelvin Universe is in the Prime Universe? Why is their so much resistance to the idea of a new 3rd universe? If the biggest argument for the new look is that "Discovery" needs to look and be different, then what better setting to do that but in a timeline in which it is the first show in it and thus it can completely define that timeline anyway it wants?
Jason
Honestly, I kinda miss the days when we weren't all obsessed with "canon."
For those who like recreations for die hards, Continues is pretty good.
I personally (from what I've seen so far - could be wrong) would like to see more a little more homage to the 60's aesthetic. Not recreations, but more of the feel. I'm not a big Kelvin timeline fan, but I do think they did a good job with the uniforms, and parts of the sets/props. The little lights over the consoles was a great Cage call back, and there were a lot of smooth 60's style lines.
Perhaps we will see things looking a little more TOS-like on the actual Discovery. The ship design itself is more TOS-like than the Shensau (spelling?) with it's simple lines and shapes.
I personally (from what I've seen so far - could be wrong) would like to see more a little more homage to the 60's aesthetic. Not recreations, but more of the feel. I'm not a big Kelvin timeline fan, but I do think they did a good job with the uniforms, and parts of the sets/props. The little lights over the consoles was a great Cage call back, and there were a lot of smooth 60's style lines.
Perhaps we will see things looking a little more TOS-like on the actual Discovery. The ship design itself is more TOS-like than the Shensau (spelling?) with it's simple lines and shapes.
Discovery just has to find their footing. Hopefully they will be given to do so, but I'm more skeptical on that point.
I think canon is good for the most part, though it does have some downside.
The good is I think it provides texture to a universe and makes it feel more like a real place while also creating exciting stuff that fans will want to learn more from, for no other reason than it was a reference in a episode. Kind of like the Earth/Romulan war just to give one example. Plus I Think people love character crossovers or even other types of crossovers like a Galaxy Class ship on DS9 or a Picard or DS9 reference on "Voyager" and of course familiar aliens that show up in all the shows.
The downside is it gets hard to keep track of everything after awhile which means it could hurt in coming up with new ideas.
Jason
People have been obsessing about Canon since the dawn of history.
But not necessarily with regards to science fiction movies and TV shows.
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But necessarily with regards to science fiction movies and TV shows.
But that's where real dogmatism creeps in!
The funny thing is that TOS gave us at least two examples of touchscreen or motion-sensitive control interfaces. In "The Cage" Spock waves his hand in front of a bridge station display and it automatically changes to another image, and in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Gary Mitchell opens the commsystem to the rest of the ship by simply sliding the edge of his hand across a smooth display or interface. No physical buttons or other tangible, visible controls were involved.
He was actually pointing to a crewmember who was pressing a button. There's a photo somewhere out there showing this, they cropped the extra out of the shot presumably to make it look more mysterious and futuristic.
I'll have to watch out for this one.
But has that ever been true with Trek? That SNL skit with Shatner telling fans to "Get a Life" must have been based on the idea that fans take things to serious. Even back in the 70's and 80's their must have been fans trying to figure out things like UESPHA and the Organian peace treaty. I think without this kind of, second level interest the show would have never really became the first really organized fandom of a tv show.But not necessarily with regards to science fiction movies and TV shows.
Jason
I kinda miss the days when there weren't any remakes, reboots, re-imaginings. Because in reality that was the only time there weren't any arguments about canon.
I'm not sure there was ever such a time. Hollywood has been in the remake business since the silent era.
"I can't believe they rebooted THE MUMMY--and changed his origin! His name is Imhotep, damnit, not Kharis,,and what's this bit about tana leaves? Everyone knows you need the Scroll of the Thoth to raise a mummy!"
"This new TV version of GUNSMOKE is an insult to the original radio show. James Arness is no William Conrad!"
I'm not sure there was ever such a time. Hollywood has been in the remake business since the silent era.
"I can't believe they rebooted THE MUMMY--and changed his origin! His name is Imhotep, damnit, not Kharis,,and what's this bit about tana leaves? Everyone knows you need the Scroll of the Thoth to raise a mummy!"
"This new TV version of GUNSMOKE is an insult to the original radio show. James Arness is no William Conrad!"
James Bond managed just fine for 40 years and 20 movies without the need for a reboot.
Doctor Who has been doing it for 54 years and 36 seasons.
No arguments there about "canon". If it aired/screened it's official.
On the other side of the spectrum there is Terminator and Highlander where each new installment is in a timeline and continuity of its own.
You take your pick which is better.
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Every time they change the actor its a reboot. Quantum of solace was a reboot of the franchise.
This is going off-topic slightly I guess, but when it comes to anachronisms in period pieces, the two biggest offenders, IMHO, are Hogan's Heroes and Happy Days. Hogan's Heroes tended to have all these go-go dancer style chicks working for the resistance that seemed to reflect some very 1960s fashion trends and Happy days was full of 70s polyester.
I do think it's possible to do something deliberately retro AND have it be wildly successful, though. Stranger Things is a good example.
I think sometimes there's an assumption in Hollywood that you must tow the line stylistically with what's currently hip and it's just not true. Note that Stranger Things was rejected constantly until Netflix took it on.
http://www.businessinsider.com/stranger-things-was-rejected-by-over-15-networks-2016-8
There's just something vanilla about doing things the way everyone else does it. When you defy expectations it is perceived as bold and risky. The new Twin Peaks out-weirding the old might be another example.
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My girlfriend always laughs at the sixties hairdos and eye makeup in old Hammer horror movies, especially the ones supposedly set in Victorian London or 19th century Transylvania . . . .
Ditto for the Starship Enterprise, circa 1967 or so. (I actually wrote a bit years ago where Roberta Lincoln visits the Enterprise and marvels that mini-skirts and go-go boots are still in fashion in the 23rd century.)
Fashions come and go all the time. Lots of older fashion trends make comebacks. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
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