Dark Matter Season 3

[Wouter]

Nice episode.
Even the "phased" thing worked in this episode because they showed Ash was controlling it himself, avoiding the pitfall of "why doesn't he fall through the floor" or "how can he even breathe". He only activated it when needed.

Interestingly, in the list recited by old-Five, "the Dwarf Star conspiracy" is mentioned, confirming that evil-Wesley will be back. "the double deception" sounded interesting as well: I hope this may be related to Derrick Moss.

From one of the future scenes of the Android (I wonder if the very first was actually in the past), we have seemingly learned that the Android is not a reprogrammed and upgraded standard model, but that she was highly sophisticated right from creation. We are going somewhere with that, too.

The inventor that was associated with Tabor (the one who created the time loop device) may have had something to do with it, or with the Raza.

 

[Velocity]

The android's trip to the future was pretty grim, but I liked her new style.

 

[Star Wolf]

"Don't bring a knife to a gunfight."
There are actually techniques for face-to-face gunfighting. For one thing, you don't extend the pistol at arm's length so the other guy can grab it. It's one of the only times that shooting from the hip is recommended.

The one I learned is this: Draw your weapon and keep it tucked close to your side at hip or rib level. Simultaneously push the opponent away with your other hand, to the full extent of your arm, and lock your arm. If he was unarmed, he now has a second to reconsider his actions. If he has a knife or a gun, you now have a microsecond to shoot him until he stops being a threat. If he tries to grab your gun, it's a long awkward reach for him and you have time to react. I was quite pleased to see Marg Helgenberger use this technique on CSI once, one of the few times I've seen real gunfighting techniques used on a TV show.

I guess that while most characters/actors still used the two handed Weaver type stances, probably first introduced by Paul Michael Glazer playing Sergeant Starsky of Starsky and Hutch and slowly became the standard by the time Miami Vice hit the air it is two of the ex Navy SEAL characters , Riggs of the TV Lethal Weapon played by Clayne Crawford most known for using the most modern handgun search tactics with Alex O'Loughlin's Steve McGarrett of Hawaii 5-0 using it occasionally.

 

[Christopher]

Mythbusters tested the "knife to a gunfight" saying, and they found that in close quarters (within 16 feet), the knife-wielder could strike faster than a gun could be drawn, and that from a distance, a knife-thrower could potentially outdraw a shooter.

 

[Star Wolf]

Mythbusters tested the "knife to a gunfight" saying, and they found that in close quarters (within 16 feet), the knife-wielder could strike faster than a gun could be drawn, and that from a distance, a knife-thrower could potentially outdraw a shooter.

Understood, but see Riggs of Lethal Weapon TV, has his weapon drawn just close to the body in the retaining position ready to push the muzzle forward to fire.

 

[Forbin]

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[Christopher]

Understood, but see Riggs of Lethal Weapon TV, has his weapon drawn just close to the body in the retaining position ready to push the muzzle forward to fire.

Umm, okay, but I wasn't refuting that, I was commenting on the "never bring a knife to a gunfight" line. Of course there's no guarantee that the knife will win, certainly not if the gun-wielder has already drawn; I'm just pointing out that it's not as complete a mismatch as the saying presumes, that in some contexts, the gun-wielder is at a disadvantage. Laypeople tend to assume that guns are magically all-powerful, just easy point-and-shoot devices (literally) like in TV and movies. In reality, they have limitations that are rarely acknowledged in fiction.

(Indeed, wasn't the "knife to a gunfight" line a movie quote originally? Apparently it was from the 1987 The Untouchables film. I once found a reference attributing it to some earlier real-life gun expert, but I couldn't find corroboration.)

 

[Star Wolf]

Umm, okay, but I wasn't refuting that, I was commenting on the "never bring a knife to a gunfight" line. Of course there's no guarantee that the knife will win, certainly not if the gun-wielder has already drawn; I'm just pointing out that it's not as complete a mismatch as the saying presumes, that in some contexts, the gun-wielder is at a disadvantage. Laypeople tend to assume that guns are magically all-powerful, just easy point-and-shoot devices (literally) like in TV and movies. In reality, they have limitations that are rarely acknowledged in fiction.

(Indeed, wasn't the "knife to a gunfight" line a movie quote originally? Apparently it was from the 1987 The Untouchables film. I once found a reference attributing it to some earlier real-life gun expert, but I couldn't find corroboration.)

It was a character trait during one season of Justified. The bad was going on about the 16 second rule looking forward to a showdown with Deputy Marshal Raylon Givens only to trip and stab himself to death when the showdown came. In another season on the other hand the man with the hideout quick draw gun had his arm chopped off by another knife wielding hood.

 

[Forbin]

Anybody looking at the actual real-world training videos I linked? Or are we going to keep describing how TV shows (usually made by people who don't like guns OR know how to use them) do it?

 

[Star Wolf]

Well there is real life and then there is what looks good on the screen.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Anybody looking at the actual real-world training videos I linked? Or are we going to keep describing how TV shows (usually made by people who don't like guns OR know how to use them) do it?

Don't they hire people who do?

 

[Marc]

Don't they hire people who do?

it's a sci-fi show where people get shot with weapons that don't exist so why would they bother?

They would be more interesting in the stunt co-coordinators and the like who make things look good and allow them to tell the story.

 

[Nerys Myk]

it's a sci-fi show where people get shot with weapons that don't exist so why would they bother?

They would be more interesting in the stunt co-coordinators and the like who make things look good and allow them to tell the story.

I was talking about film and TV in general. Though I would think general weapons handling would apply to fictional weapons too.

All advice, be it science, martial arts or weapons operate at the whim of the film makers. The first rule is usually: Does it look good on film?

 

[Forbin]

I've definitely seen behind-the-scenes bits where the actors are trained by professional combat experts, sometimes even with live-fire practice. On the other hand, I doubt every production bothers, judging by how poorly I see some actors handle guns.

 

[Star Wolf]

I've definitely seen behind-the-scenes bits where the actors are trained by professional combat experts, sometimes even with live-fire practice. On the other hand, I doubt every production bothers, judging by how poorly I see some actors handle guns.

When Captain Dale Dye showed up as an out of uniform Army Colonel in Falling Skies I knew the consultant business was drying up. That TV would use the most modern special ops techniques while most police departments still are using methods adopted large scale 30 years ago is asking for a lot.

 

[Christopher]

That TV would use the most modern special ops techniques while most police departments still are using methods adopted large scale 30 years ago is asking for a lot.

I think what most current US police departments need is more training in how not to use their firearms.

 

[Reverend]

Well this was a fun episode! I love how it started in what is usually the second act of a 'Groundhog Day' style narrative, trusting that the audience is very familiar with the trope and will quickly grab what's going on. That's some great economy of storytelling.
A little disappointed that the culprit turned out to be some random device not-David Hewlett just happened to have in his quarters. Seems like a malfunction in the already tampered with blink-drive would have been a more logical way to go with it.

Also not so crazy about Old Lady Five rattling off cryptic hints that sounded like actual future episode titles. A little too Doctor Who-ishly on the nose for my taste.

I think what most current US police departments need is more training in how not to use their firearms.

I saw a program on TV some months back about some British police officers being invited over to the states to teach them how we deal with dangerous suspects, mostly through patience and deescalation. The American police (especially the younger ones) didn't seem able to grasp the concept, stating something to the effect of "if there's bad guys in there, we should just go in and shoot them before they can hurt anyone."
Speaking as someone who grew up around British soldiers who have served alongside yanks in joint operations (Iraq 1 & 2, the Balkan conflicts, Afghanistan etc.), I can say they've related that US soldiers have pretty much the same dangerous trigger happy attitude. I think one even said that the general feeling in the field is that they'd much rather have the enemy operating behind their lines than the Americans, since it would mean they're a lot less likely to get shot in the back.
I suspect it would take a massive sea-change in American cultural attitudes to really get at the root of the problem. But yes, different training doctrine would be a good start.

 

[Star Wolf]

I saw a program on TV some months back about some British police officers being invited over to the states to teach them how we deal with dangerous suspects, mostly through patience and deescalation. The American police (especially the younger ones) didn't seem able to grasp the concept, stating something to the effect of "if there's bad guys in there, we should just go in and shoot them before they can hurt anyone."
Speaking as someone who grew up around British soldiers who have served alongside yanks in joint operations (Iraq 1 & 2, the Balkan conflicts, Afghanistan etc.), I can say they've related that US soldiers have pretty much the same dangerous trigger happy attitude. I think one even said that the general feeling in the field is that they'd much rather have the enemy operating behind their lines than the Americans, since it would mean they're a lot less likely to get shot in the back.
I suspect it would take a massive sea-change in American cultural attitudes to really get at the root of the problem. But yes, different training doctrine would be a good start.

Hopefully it has changed after large scale operations in Iraq but I remember the built up operations (city fighting) field manual from 30 years ago. You would think the SOP came from rooting the Japanese out of a city or the Soviets clearing Stalingrad. Toss in a grenade shoot through the wall at knee level with a heavy machinegun and only then does the trooper try to breach and enter to search. After Vietnam force protection was probably the primary interest which would account for the overwhelming force doctrines

Meanwhile on TV we have gone from "elite", or not so elite if the character was a detective sneering at them,SWAT team, wearing black army fatigues and carrying a rifle instead of a pistol and shotgun. To now when virtually all characters, even science fiction Starship Troopers, have pistols extended in the two handed combat grip shouting clear after a quick look. Only the very lowest budget productions with actors who never played army as kids go back to the just wave the weapon around as opposed to acting like the present generation of average cops due to the safety/ prop armorers on the set. demanding some standard

 

[Christopher]

Only the very lowest budget productions with actors who never played army as kids go back to the just wave the weapon around as opposed to acting like the present generation of average cops due to the safety/ prop armorers on the set. demanding some standard

I remember watching The Man from UNCLE and being struck by how careless Robert Vaughn was with handling prop guns, casually waving them around and pointing them at his friends and doing other stuff that would be insanely dangerous with real firearms. He even shook the gun forward in his hand when he fired, like a little kid with a finger "gun." And it wasn't just guns -- there was one episode where he was handling a sword and casually gripped its exposed blade in his bare hand.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I thought this was a fun episode, and liked the twist of adding more people to the loop.

So who was the person under sedation with Ryo at the end? I couldn't make them out very well. Also, just a tad annoyed Four pronounces it Raz-uh instead of Rah-za... or is this supposed to differentiate between good & bad guys ?