Age of Modern Astronauts vs. Military Personnel and How that Relates to Starship Personnel

[Sibyl]

I don't think I've seen many young American astronauts. Most of them are pretty experienced pilots, definitely not fresh out of the Academies. Meanwhile, it seems that the rank and file of modern military branches are in their late teens or earlier 20s unless they make a career out of it.

One of the complaints about the TOS movies is that in reality, the crew would have been much higher ranked, had moved on from their TOS positions, and would most certainly have broken up by then.

Then you come to TNG and later series, and it seems like most of the crew are older than fresh out of the Academy (in the Prime Universe). There are a few younger officers and NCOs but they seem to be few and far between.

Are Starship assignments reserved for highly experienced personnel as in the current space program, or would interstellar spaceflight be so common in the 23rd century and beyond that the age of the people running the ship (not the CO) would be closer to the age of modern military personnel?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then you come to TNG and later series, and it seems like most of the crew are older than fresh out of the Academy (in the Prime Universe). There are a few younger officers and NCOs but they seem to be few and far between.

What are we basing this on? We see a range of ages. From young Ensigns like Nog, Kim and Crusher. Some what older lieutenants like Bashir, Dax, LaForge and Paris. Seasoned officers like Sisko, Riker and Janeway. Older well seasoned types like Picard.

 

[Sibyl]

Yes, Nog and Crusher, who essentially grew up on the shows.

Kim didn't seem that young to me, but maybe he was.

There were younger crewmembers, but they weren't as prevalent as they appear to be in modern militaries, or, at least, from what I've seen. I've never been in the military, so I can't speak to it other than what I've seen on the news and in the movies.

It just seems that most Starship personnel appear to be in their thirties or older. Late-twenties, maybe.

Of course, the CO and department heads are going to be older than the majority of the crew, so I understand the main characters being more mature, and yes, there were some younger guest officers, but I would think that it would appear more overrun with younger crewmembers than what's shown.

The last paragraph in my OP is the relevant question.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It just seems that most Starship personnel appear to be in their thirties or older. Late-twenties, maybe.

More of a result of the Hollywood acting pool.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Are Starship assignments reserved for highly experienced personnel as in the current space program, or would interstellar spaceflight be so common in the 23rd century and beyond that the age of the people running the ship (not the CO) would be closer to the age of modern military personnel?

The latter I would think. The show was very much going for the feel of a modern Naval vessel than the Astronaut corps.

 

[Sibyl]

That's kind of what I was thinking, too. I know it was modeled on the modern Navy, but I don't know how far that parallel went.

 

[The Old Mixer]

A quick Google tells me that 536 people have been in space, including suborbital flights. That's the crew compliment of one starship in Trek. Clearly our own level of space flight is a much more rare thing in the here and now than interstellar travel is in Trek.

 

[Sibyl]

A quick Google tells me that 536 people have been in space, including suborbital flights. That's the crew compliment of one starship in Trek. Clearly our own level of space flight is a much more rare thing in the here and now than interstellar travel is in Trek.

I'd kinda think they'd want people in their prime, even in modern times. I know our astronauts are in top shape for their ages, but you'd think that it would be even more desirable to have people in their early to mid-twenties.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A quick Google tells me that 536 people have been in space, including suborbital flights. That's the crew compliment of one starship in Trek. Clearly our own level of space flight is a much more rare thing in the here and now than interstellar travel is in Trek.

When guys like Harry Mudd are out there plying the spaceways, I don't think interstellar travel is limited to the best and brightest.

 

[Sibyl]

Mudd is not Starfleet, though. He's a privateer. Plenty of privateers on modern oceans, too.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Mudd is not Starfleet, though. He's a privateer. Plenty of privateers on modern oceans, too.

Which makes 23rd Century space more like our modern oceans.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Mudd is not Starfleet, though. He's a privateer. Plenty of privateers on modern oceans, too.

And there's your answer. To people in Trek, it's more like ocean travel than the rarity that space travel is to us.

 

[J.T.B.]

Plenty of privateers on modern oceans, too.

A privateer is a privately-owned vessel empowered to wage war on the merchant shipping of an enemy nation. They pretty much died out in the 19th century.

 

[Sibyl]

A privateer is a privately-owned vessel empowered to wage war on the merchant shipping of an enemy nation. They pretty much died out in the 19th century.

Thank you for that clarification.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, regardless of where you come down on the issue of whether or not Starfleet is a military, it is clear that space travel in the Star Trek universe is an analogue for oceanic travel in the modern or historical eras rather than like modern space travel. Starfleet is therefore more like a seagoing agency than it is NASA.

The only hiccup is the fact that Roddenberry allegedly said that everyone in Starfleet are required to be highly educated and thus, everyone is an officer, much like NASA, but that, IMO is not practical for an organization that operates ships with crews of four hundred to a thousand.

 

[Tenacity]

Meanwhile, it seems that the rank and file of modern military branches are in their late teens or earlier 20s unless they make a career out of it.

Fifty percent of the US military is between 22 and 30.

Majority of future officers enter the academies right after High School.

Last year the average enlistment age was 21.

 

[J.T.B.]

The only hiccup is the fact that Roddenberry allegedly said that everyone in Starfleet are required to be highly educated and thus, everyone is an officer, much like NASA, but that, IMO is not practical for an organization that operates ships with crews of four hundred to a thousand.

He didn't allegedly say it, it's in black and white in The Making of Star Trek. Of course by that point the show had already established enlisted personnel aboard, so his statement is not really "operative," to borrow Ron Ziegler's terminology.

A space-going organization will, initially, be quite small due to the difficulties and cost of putting stuff into space, so individuals would have to be extremely highly qualified. With crew complements in the hundreds, of course, this would be less important, but the early days would probably leave a mark on the organization. My guess would be that the old social-class-based division of officer and enlisted would be largely discarded, in favor of more of a continuum of technically-skilled personnel who don't necessarily need to fill leadership roles. In modern US terms, maybe more like a few enlisted, a lot of warrant officers, and a few commissioned officers. But of course it's a lot easier to just transplant a framework from a real-world organization that people will find more familiar.

 

[The Wormhole]

A space-going organization will, initially, be quite small due to the difficulties and cost of putting stuff into space, so individuals would have to be extremely highly qualified.

Which does make it kind of funny that Enterprise is the only series that put any serious consideration into the existence of the enlisted ranks to the extent of even creating separate rank insignia for them, even though they were discarded in the later seasons.

 

[Sibyl]

TOS had plenty of "technicians" in orange jumpsuits. I would've assumed those were enlisted personnel.

TOS-Movies had separate uniforms and rank insignia (and even different Federation insignia--the bronze Enterprise delta with a circle while the Officers had a bronze delta with the circle and the bar behind it). TNG (through Voy?) had enlisted ranks, but no unique uniforms, perhaps in an effort to promote equality.

 

[J.T.B.]

TOS had plenty of "technicians" in orange jumpsuits. I would've assumed those were enlisted personnel.

TOS crew had jumpsuits in the three standard colors; a few orange jumpsuits were found on various other folks they encountered. But the OS Starfleet jumpsuits were not just for enlisted personnel, they were worn by officers too.