Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Campe]

Oh, i get it. But, this is one of the drums I'll beat, kind of like Jaylah. Same thing Kelvin universe Trek and how well it fits with TOS Trek, and a lot of the "plot holes" are there in the story.

Yeah, it may be futile, but it's that one thing in Trek that sticks out to me.

I'm not giving up on it either. Just suggesting that some would rather just base on what we see and know as opposed to the mysteries and possibilities we don't know about based on the fact we haven't seen the hero ship. I have a feeling they're going to be in for a surprise when Discovery premieres.

 

[JD]

Everybody keeps talking about how the bridge looks to much like the bridge from the Kelvinverse movies, but the Kelvin bridge really didn't look that different from the other Trek bridges we saw from the original movies forward. So really, by saying it looks like the Kelvin bridge all people are doing is saying that it looks like a bridge from a Star Trek production.

 

[BillJ]

I'm not giving up on it either. Just suggesting that some would rather just base on what we see and know as opposed to the mysteries and possibilities we don't know about based on the fact we haven't seen the hero ship. I have a feeling they're going to be in for a surprise when Discovery premieres.

I doubt they would spend time and money developing a look and uniforms, and then abandoning it. I think the Discovery interiors will look similar to the Shenzou.

I can of course be completely wrong.

 

[Campe]

I doubt they would spend time and money developing a look and uniforms, and then abandoning it. I think the Discovery interiors will look similar to the Shenzou.

I can of course be completely wrong.

If they are going to have two hero ships, and a ton of money behind them (which they obviously do), why wouldn't they pay big bucks for two hero ships' sets? This isn't 90s Trek any longer.

Of course, I too could be completely wrong. Time will tell.

 

[fireproof78]

I doubt they would spend time and money developing a look and uniforms, and then abandoning it. I think the Discovery interiors will look similar to the Shenzou.

I can of course be completely wrong.

Might be surprised, given the work that was put in to both the USS Kelvin bridge, as well as the fact that TOS films reused TNG sets.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I'm wondering if there's any truth to the notion that the Discovery is a rebuilt Shenzou after a near-fatal destruction in the pilot episode. Can't even remember where that rumor came from, but I recall it making some waves when it first went out there to test the wind. The two ships look way too fundamentally different to have the same spaceframe with a new skin, IMO, but as far as I know, the theory has yet to be debunked.

 

[Campe]

^ The only time we ever really saw kitbashed ships was during the Dominion War. I get the rationale there. But in this situation, I guess in this time period, where there's no real war we're aware of, amy question would be: Why?

 

[Mr. Nova]

The "Prime" timeline was the one where Ambassador Spock and Nero came from in the 2009 movie. But that is not necessarily the same timeline in which TOS took place.

After the Borg attack on Cochrane in "First Contact," and the Temporal Cold War throughout "Enterprise," with the Suliban attack on the Klingon and the Xindi attack on Earth, the Federation of the 2250s could look wildly different from TOS -- even BEFORE Nero showed up and destroyed the U.S.S. Kelvin. The "Prime" timeline is the result of 200 years of time travel shenanigans, with multiple aliens fiddling with Earth's history.

Also, when Admiral Janeway went back in time in "Endgame" and got the Voyager back to Earth decades earlier, she created a NEW timeline (which was the setting for "Star Trek: Nemesis," where Admiral Janeway was seen already back on Earth). Presumably, this alternate Janeway-verse is the so-called "Prime" timeline from which Spock-Prime originated.

Going further back, the original timeline shown in "Yesterday's Enterprise" showed different Bridge consoles and uniform designs aboard the Enterprise-D. Then Lt. Yar decided to go back in time and change her own past (exactly what Admiral Janeway and Nero did), creating the alternate TNG timeline, which had different ship designs and uniforms from the timeline Yar came from.

So there are multiple precedents for time travel into the past changing uniforms and ship designs, throughout multiple timelines in "Star Trek's" 50-year history. The "Prime" timeline (presumably the same one created by Admiral Janeway) and the "Kelvin" timeline (created by Nero and Spock-Prime) are just the last two of dozens of alternate timelines depicted over the past 700 episodes.

(The only actual canon depictions of the "Prime" timeline are in "Endgame" and "Star Trek: Nemesis," as well as Spock-Prime's flashback scenes in 2009's "Star Trek." Spock-Prime is not even the same Ambassador Spock last seen in TNG's "Unification" -- Spock-Prime is from the alternate timeline created by Admiral Janeway, while the original Spock may have died on Romulus years before the Voyager ever got back to Earth. And that Ambassador Spock is still not the "original" Spock from TOS, who may have died in the Klingon-Federation war of the original timeline from which Yar came in "Yesterday's Enterprise.")

Then there was the "Voyager" episode "Future's End," in which Henry Starling found future technology from a crashed timeship, altering much of the late 20th century's history. Maybe in this timeline, as a result of Starling's futuristic "inventions," the Eugenics Wars never happened, or happened differently from the TOS timeline; or maybe Khan became a blue-eyed, pale British guy instead of an Asian Sikh warrior with a Mexican accent. Who knows.

My point is, the so-called "Prime" timeline is about 20 alternate timelines removed from the "original" timeline depicted in TOS. As far as we know, everything shown in the "Star Trek: Discovery" trailer is exactly how the "Prime" timeline should have looked at that time period, since we have never seen the "Prime" timeline in the 23rd century depicted before.

Now my head canon hurts...

 

[137th Gebirg]

^ The only time we ever really saw kitbashed ships was during the Dominion War. I get the rationale there. But in this situation, I guess in this time period, where there's no real war we're aware of, amy question would be: Why?

If I were to guess, possibly as a test bed for new experimental propulsion and/or weapons platforms (especially if the tangential rumors of a Section 31 connection bear any weight). In good Socratic form of answering a question with a question, why did they put all that time and effort to refit the TOS E to an "almost entirely new Enterprise" and then only a couple years later relegate it to training duty and, further, consider actually retiring it because it was "20 years old"? I suspect the TOS-E was considered as a test bed for the new warp-dynamic nacelle and intermix system to be a proof-of-concept on new builds off the same design. They referred to "new shields" holding against V'Ger's attacks, presumably far more strong at resisting said attacks than Epsilon 9's or even the Klingon shields could resist. Outperforming a large space station AND Klingon battlecruisers? Pretty impressive! Perhaps Reliant, Enterprise-A and even the Stargazer benefitted from this experiment after the refit, opening the door to a whole new generation of late 23rd/early 24th century starships. Aside from the V'Ger incident, I don't believe the Federation was fighting any wars at the time. So there is somewhat of a precedent - the only difference is the TOS E was just rode hard and put away wet before refit and not near-destroyed like the Shenzou/Discovery rumor posits.

Personally, I think it's a stroke of brilliance if S31 is involved. They foot the bill for a new starship, but the crew are explorers first and foremost. They would naturally chafe against more combat/surveillance missions that S31 would obviously advocate and would want to lean more towards exploration, constantly putting them at odds with their "masters" who naturally think the crew owes them something. The canvas is set for intriguing moral and ethical quandaries, plus the requisite level of action if S31 has anything to do with it. Best kind of Trek storytelling, IMO.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm wondering if there's any truth to the notion that the Discovery is a rebuilt Shenzou after a near-fatal destruction in the pilot episode.

I can't imagine why the ship design would need to be completely changed, a new name given, and a registry number lower than the original, just because the Shenzhou was damaged.

 

[Campe]

I will be very surprised (and I'm not sure in a good way) if Section 31 is involved in this show.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I can't imagine why the ship design would need to be completely changed, a new name given, and a registry number lower than the original, just because the Shenzhou was damaged.

If Section 31 is involved, this would explain it the best, making an entirely new ship from pieces of the old, completely off the books. Don't know. Maybe there is a shortage of materials they can use and need to recycle from a wreck. That certainly makes the theory much more problematic, though, no doubt.

I will be very surprised (and I'm not sure in a good way) if Section 31 is involved in this show.

Depends on how it's done. If it's used to make for more compelling storytelling, there shouldn't be a problem. If it's used as a cheap gimmick to generate some poorly written narrative and artificial conflict without any real drama behind it then, yes, I would agree with you that it won't be a good thing. I have great confidence in Nick Meyer and his crew that they will do the right thing if they go down that path.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Section 31 will occupy cloaked compartments in what appear to be the negative space of the saucer. When Berman -- sorry, I mean, Burnham -- is finally promoted to Captain, there will be a great reveal when she finds the Section 31 liaison waiting for her in her ready room, to give her this week's orders.

 

[JD]

I don't know, the whole Section 31 things just seems like the usual BS fan theory to me. I know there's a chance it's legit, but it seems very unlikely to me. But then again, I probably would have said the same thing if I heard about Khan being involved with 31 in Into Darkness before it came out.

 

[Nyotarules]

Please no Section 31, 32, 33, 34 or 35

 

[urbandefault]

This thread has turned into a big giant cluster.

It's simple: The CBS universe is Prime. It doesn't matter what it looks like, it's Prime because they say it is. The Paramount movies are K-verse, JJ style. Updating the look of the Prime doesn't change the setting, just as overwriting past events for convenience has never changed it.

Arguing about what "is" is before seeing an episode is just speculation. It may be fun for some, not for others.

I'll wait and see.

 

[BillJ]

...just as overwriting past events for convenience has never changed it.

Then it is just a name with no real meaning behind it. The Abramsverse is Prime, the Mirror universe is Prime, all the Krenim timelines are Prime.

 

[urbandefault]

Then it is just a name with no real meaning behind it. The Abramsverse is Prime, the Mirror universe is Prime, all the Krenim timelines are Prime.

Nope.

 

[BillJ]

Nope.

If neither the looks nor events are important, then "Prime" is a distinction that makes no difference. It represents nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

Like the new Chevy Super Sport. A car with a name but nothing else connecting it to what came before.

 

[urbandefault]

If neither the looks nor events are important, then "Prime" is a distinction that makes no difference. It represents nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

Like the new Chevy Super Sport. A car with a name but nothing else connecting it to what came before.

It's a word. One that differentiates CBS Trek from Paramount Trek.

You know this. What I don't know is why it's a big deal.

Vive la difference!