Saavik could have been doing post-graduate work.
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Here is why canon is important to Trek.
- Thread starter Jayson1
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Saavik could have been doing post-graduate work.
Sure, but that's not supported by what's on screen either.
But I said "could have been," you said "was."
She is still a cadet, and the Kobyashi Maru test seems to be her first take on the test.
She is not a cadet or a midshipman, she is addressed as "lieutenant" consistently.
Her color division color clearly indicates cadet, and Spock speaks to her as a cadet.
What the colors mean is speculation. She wears red on an officer uniform, while there are a lot of others (cadets?) wearing red on a jumpsuit uniform. Undergrads and post-grads doesn't seem like an unreasonable interpretation.
And Spock addresses her as "lieutenant." If her rank was cadet, she would be addressed as "cadet."
Possibly. But, all the other indications are that red is for cadets, whether in jumpsuit or in the "monster maroon."
Secondly, Uhura is clearly a cadet, but then addressed a "Lieutenant" by both Spock and Pike. So, I'm not certain that Starfleet, at least in the time of TOS, treated "cadet" as a rank or at least at a certain point in their training, which Kirk and Uhura and Saavik seemed to be more advanced, as Kirk is ranked at "lieutenant" in ST 09.
I was speaking of TOS only, where Kirk referred to himself as both cadet and midshipman as an Academy undergrad. The '09-and-after movies I can't address, but I'm not sure what bearing that would have on TOS.
Fair enough, and I'm sorry I missed the differentiation.
I have a question about KIrk in the Kelvin Universe. Is his jump through ranks any more harder to buy than Nog's quick rise on "DS9?" He went from Cadet to Chief ENgineer in the final episode without every going back to the academy after the war. Plus we have Harry Kim become a senior officer right out of the academy and even Doctor Bashir becomes Chief Medical Officer during his first career posting.
Jason
Jason
I think its a difference of department head (i.e. Chief Engineer, Chief Medical officer, etc) as opposed to being the captain over all of it, especially of the "newest flagship."
It doesn't bother me, as far as enjoyment of the film goes, but I can certainly see why the questions arise.
Was it ever stated that Nog was Chief Engineer at the end of DSN, we know he got a promotion in rank but I don't recall seeing anything mentioned about his actual position. Wasn't Kim referred to by Janeway as theri new operations officer. Sure he may have inherited the chief post after the events of "Caretaker".
DS9 was supposed to be an arse-end of nowhere nothing posting, until the wormhole was discovered.
Any real military would have immediately replaced any inexperienced officers as soon as the tactical importance of the location was established.
Also, DS9 made former enemy spy Garak a bridge officer on the USS Defiant (although admittedly I don't remember which panel he was assigned to) despite him not having any Starfleet training or background whatsoever.
We do see some weird things when it comes to rank and duties in Trek. Troi should have never been in command in "Disaster" and I think their had to be better options than her as pilot in "Generations." Nog becomes the main pilot in many episodes on the Defiant when you think you would have more experienced officers for the job.
Jason
Jason
Don't know what you're smoking, but I don't recall any scene that has both Uhura and Pike together.
Maybe you should try some of it.
Because Uhura's with Kirk when he tries to warn Pike about Nero. She backs him up, so Pike prompts her to corroborate some of the presented evidence (the Klingon attack,)
He later has her replace his original officer when the latter can't even scan for Romulan broadcasts.
They (Kirk, Pike , and Spock) all refer to her as Lt, even before they're assigned to the Enterprise. With one exception from Pike, before he's informed of her identity.
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Thank you. I rewatched the scene, and Pike is the only one who calls her "Cadet," even though other officers refer to her as lieutenant.
Canon... When it comes to Trek, is something you have to decide for yourself I think.
For me, I consider TOS through to Voyager as a continuous canon, I do not count time travel episodes or Mirror Universe episodes and I consider it continuous in only the broadest of ways, if you start getting nit picky, especially about the continuity of technology through all the series, it all falls apart.
I enjoy fictional universes with a well fleshed out history and if you decide how you want it to fit, you can make Trek work as long as you don't take it seriously, because alot of the Time Travel and Mirror universe episodes just destroy the idea of a working canon all together.
So, is canon be all and end all for Trek? Nope.
Is it fun if it works? Absolutely.
For me, I consider TOS through to Voyager as a continuous canon, I do not count time travel episodes or Mirror Universe episodes and I consider it continuous in only the broadest of ways, if you start getting nit picky, especially about the continuity of technology through all the series, it all falls apart.
I enjoy fictional universes with a well fleshed out history and if you decide how you want it to fit, you can make Trek work as long as you don't take it seriously, because alot of the Time Travel and Mirror universe episodes just destroy the idea of a working canon all together.
So, is canon be all and end all for Trek? Nope.
Is it fun if it works? Absolutely.
Nog did not go from Cadet to Chief Engineer in one episode. Nog stopped being a Cadet in Favor the Bold when he received a field commission and became an officer with the rank of Ensign. He remained an ensign for a year and a half and was promoted to Lieutenant, though there is no indication he was chief engineer. Regardless, going from Cadet to Lieutenant in the span of a year and a half during wartime is yes much more realistic than someone instantly being promoted from Cadet to Captain and given command of the flagship.
Harry is kind of pushing it, but Voyager is a smaller ship so it's not that bad. Dr. Bashir was a prodigy, having graduated second in his class in medical school, and as noted above DS9 was at first a backwater assignment.
It was an emergency situation. Had things gone normally, she'd only have been keeping the seat warm until a qualified pilot showed up, probably one of the background bridge guys. Unfortunately, the saucer just happened to crash while she was at the helm. And while everyone makes jokes about Deanna always crashing ships, the one thing they overlook is that in Generations, despite the fact she was sitting at the helm, Data had in fact taken over fight operations, during the crash it is he who leveled their descent so they would crash bottom-down.
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