That's ok. Pretty sure there are written ones of that as well.
Was Obi Wan a bad mentor/teacher?
- Thread starter Mage
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I'm pretty sure there are a lot of them.
Perhaps I missed it in my skimread of this thread, but Obi-Wan himself felt that he had failed as a teacher
"I thought I could train him as well as Yoda [would have]... I was wrong"
He saw his mistake, too late.
The PT showed that Obi-Wan's errors came as a result of his inexperience as a teacher and his exposure to the unorthodox methods and philosophies of Qui-Gon Jinn.
Would I have been sitting next to ghost Obi-Wan, I would have reminded him that Yoda trained the Jedi that became Darth Tyrannus, so no one is immune to the pull of the dark side - no matter who trains him.
"I thought I could train him as well as Yoda [would have]... I was wrong"
He saw his mistake, too late.
The PT showed that Obi-Wan's errors came as a result of his inexperience as a teacher and his exposure to the unorthodox methods and philosophies of Qui-Gon Jinn.
Would I have been sitting next to ghost Obi-Wan, I would have reminded him that Yoda trained the Jedi that became Darth Tyrannus, so no one is immune to the pull of the dark side - no matter who trains him.
The idea that any one thing was responsible for how things played out with Anakin is a massive oversimplification. Anakin was a perfect storm of tragedy. Everything that could go wrong, did and while Qui Gon Jinn may have approached things differently, I don't think for a second that he or any other Master could have single handedly prevented the birth of Darth Vader, given the same hand that was dealt to Obi-Wan.
Obi-Wan was not totally responsible for Anakin's bad decision. Only Anakin was responsible. But as I have stated before, he was not a good mentor for Anakin.
I would never make the above statement, because I honestly do not know what would have happened if Qui-Gon had remained Anakin's mentor. Frankly, the only person who probably knows is George Lucas. But for some reason, a lot of people like to believe what would have happened to Anakin if Qui-Gon had remained his Jedi teacher.
I don't believe that Obi-Wan's exposures to Qui-Gon's unorthodox teaching led to the errors he made. I believe that his resistance to Qui-Gon's methods had led to his mistakes. Obi-Wan's unwillingness to even consider Qui-Gon's more unorthodox teachings only exposed him as the absolutist that he had accused the Sith of being.
I would never make the above statement, because I honestly do not know what would have happened if Qui-Gon had remained Anakin's mentor. Frankly, the only person who probably knows is George Lucas. But for some reason, a lot of people like to believe what would have happened to Anakin if Qui-Gon had remained his Jedi teacher.
I don't believe that Obi-Wan's exposures to Qui-Gon's unorthodox teaching led to the errors he made. I believe that his resistance to Qui-Gon's methods had led to his mistakes. Obi-Wan's unwillingness to even consider Qui-Gon's more unorthodox teachings only exposed him as the absolutist that he had accused the Sith of being.
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My point is that OBI-WAN thought he was responsible, and the PT certainly supported his opinion.
Padme is too beautiful.
Ordinary men have trouble acting cool around her.
Look how whipped Thor GOD of Thunder was around this unquenchable beauty.
Anakin by comparison was a celibate virgin, who had been thinking about kissing this lady since he was nine years old.
It's her job, as a woman, to tell unworthy losers to #### off.
And this is why I think Anakin is the worst...
He would not have taken "no" for an answer.
The problem is, this is not some boxing Helena situation, where Annie hobbles Padme and locks her in a box, until she agrees to love him.
Jedi mind ticks.
"I don't love you."
"You love me."
"I love you."
"Marry Me."
"I want to marry you."
This is another reason why Jedi need to be celibate, and locked in a ridiculous religion that forces them to be morally reputable, on pain of probably execution.
Dominating force ignorant human cattle is effortless.
Reminds me of the Psi Corps.
Same difference.
Is Jedi training to magnify their powers, or keep the surface population safe?
Ordinary men have trouble acting cool around her.
Look how whipped Thor GOD of Thunder was around this unquenchable beauty.
Anakin by comparison was a celibate virgin, who had been thinking about kissing this lady since he was nine years old.
It's her job, as a woman, to tell unworthy losers to #### off.
And this is why I think Anakin is the worst...
He would not have taken "no" for an answer.
The problem is, this is not some boxing Helena situation, where Annie hobbles Padme and locks her in a box, until she agrees to love him.
Jedi mind ticks.
"I don't love you."
"You love me."
"I love you."
"Marry Me."
"I want to marry you."
This is another reason why Jedi need to be celibate, and locked in a ridiculous religion that forces them to be morally reputable, on pain of probably execution.
Dominating force ignorant human cattle is effortless.
Reminds me of the Psi Corps.
Same difference.
Is Jedi training to magnify their powers, or keep the surface population safe?
Both. That's why they battle the Sith, as they are unchecked in their power.
Over the course of a thousand years, the Jedi Order reorganized from the Republic's anti-Sith Empire combat forces to basically the Senate's mostly impartial peacekeeping group that acted sort of like a mix because Old West Marshals and Mediators. Most times they won't even need to draw their lightsabers or use their powers. But they had them just the same. But when the Clone Wars came, the Jedi get drafted into being the military leadership for the Clones until such time as the Republic can produce enough skilled officers to take their place. By the time the Republic's officer corp is ready, and the Jedi and placed under the command of the Supreme Chancellor, not only are Military Governors place in charge of large areas of territory, but then Order 66 comes down to wipe the Jedi out before they can really contest the rulings, or even before they can just fall back to their old peacekeeping ways.
That's something that wasn't developed much in the PT, aside from Yoda being much more reluctant to train Anakin at all the two seemed to have very similar views and styles in general and and also teaching styles.
Indeed. The sense I had from Obi-Wan in the OT was that his method of teaching Anakin was flawed, not that the Jedi way itself was flawed. Because, if Obi-Wan isn't really distinct in his teachings from Yoda (aside from being called "defiant" and "arrogant" by Yoda) then Anakin's fall becomes all about how the Jedi are flawed, which the PT demonstrates.
Not sure if it sits well with the OT presentation, but even if it does, what benefit is there to the Jedi being a flawed order if the most powerful one of them ends up a servant of evil?
Well they did have a great run of maintaining/helping to maintain peace but I think it does make a lot of sense that, after Anakin's downfall, both Luke and other characters are a lot more skeptical about whether it's a good idea to reestablish the order given the cataclysmic consequences of even one Jedi turning bad.
To my way of thinking, Obi-Wan's only real failure was in vastly underestimating just how volatile Anakin had become just beneath the surface and in caring about him too much personally, letting certain things (like his relationship with Padme) slide because they seemed to make him happy.
Also don't forget that Anakin was actively deceitful. He married in secret and carried on an illicit relationship in flagrant and dangerous defiance of the Jedi code and he hid his crimes on Tatooine from the rest of the order. Had he been honest and come forward, they may have been able to help him deal with it, but instead he suppressed and allowed it to fester.
Just like the Republic, Anakin was slowly rotting from the inside long before the proverbial veil was lifted.
Also don't forget that Anakin was actively deceitful. He married in secret and carried on an illicit relationship in flagrant and dangerous defiance of the Jedi code and he hid his crimes on Tatooine from the rest of the order. Had he been honest and come forward, they may have been able to help him deal with it, but instead he suppressed and allowed it to fester.
Just like the Republic, Anakin was slowly rotting from the inside long before the proverbial veil was lifted.
How was his romance/marriage dangerous? Do you believe that lying about something big but, by most views, harmless likely leads to a person to lie about other things as well?
It does admittedly, obviously, cause Anakin to become more estranged from and doubtful of the Jedi Order but so would have frustration at not engaging in the romance.
It does admittedly, obviously, cause Anakin to become more estranged from and doubtful of the Jedi Order but so would have frustration at not engaging in the romance.
Love leads to the dark side. Well, fear of losing one you love leads to the dark side... WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
"Cut out the middleman; find someone you hate, and buy them a house."
"Cut out the middleman; find someone you hate, and buy them a house."
Love can also have a positive affect. It was love that drove Anakin to save Luke from being killed by Palpatine.
If there was nothing wrong with Yoda's teaching methods or "the Jedi way", why did Yoda believe that he required more training from Qui-Gon's ghost? Or that Obi-Wan needed it as well?
Vader had already planned to kill Palpatine, and take Luke as his apprentice in Empire: "We shall rule the galaxy as father and son"
Which means that Vader had been pussing out, looking for a moment for months by that point, to kill the emperor and hire luke.
He just ran out of time.
Love had nothing to do with it.
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