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Spoilers Gotham - Season 3

Rumors? Didn't David Mazouz outright say it as fact to reporters? I assumed Harleen was the little girl at the end of the episode.
I've noticed David Mazouz has made a number of odd comments about Gotham over the years. I don't get the feeling that he intends to say things that are off but it's more like he has a bit of an incomplete or shallow surface picture of the comics and the behind the scenes of the show. Or maybe he's told something by the director/producers just to set the scene and doesn't realize he doesn't have the full story. Maybe things changed during production that he wasn't aware of or whatever.
 
As an "old-timer" that final scene reminded me of an early incarnation of Bruce's crime fighting persona, "The Flying Fox".
 
Wow, did that ending ever scream "we don't expect to be renewed for another season!" Joke's on them.
Let's hope this is the end of the Lee/Gordon relationship drama. In my mind Lee has always been more closely connected to Bruce than anyone else and so far in the show they barely ever interact.
Indeed I think at this point in his character arc Bruce could do with a female figure in his life who isn't a homeless teenager. Too often it feels like Bruce, Alfred and Selina are off in their own separate bubble and they need to find excuses for Gordon to run into them again and again. Lee should really have been that bridge.

Okay..Who is Cyrus Gold?
Solomon Grundy.
Born on a Monday.

Barbara dead? Lets hope not.
Yeah, they still need to close the conceptual gap between here and the point where Jim names his daughter after her...because right now I can't see it.
 
Yeah, they still need to close the conceptual gap between here and the point where Jim names his daughter after her...because right now I can't see it.

Well, in the comics, the timing didn't work out for Barbara/Batgirl to be Jim and Barbara Kean's daughter, so they retconned it so that Barbara/Batgirl was actually his niece whom he and his second wife Sarah adopted. So Barbara Gordon wasn't named after Barbara Kean anyway, at least not in post-Crisis continuity, though maybe she was in The New 52.

Anyway, it's been years since there was any realistic prospect of the Gotham universe growing into anything remotely like a close duplicate of the comics continuity. It's long since gone off in its own unique direction.
 
Anyway, it's been years since there was any realistic prospect of the Gotham universe growing into anything remotely like a close duplicate of the comics continuity. It's long since gone off in its own unique direction.

And one, IMO, that's become as good as anything that's been done in the comics or anywhere else.
 
Well, in the comics, the timing didn't work out for Barbara/Batgirl to be Jim and Barbara Kean's daughter, so they retconned it so that Barbara/Batgirl was actually his niece whom he and his second wife Sarah adopted. So Barbara Gordon wasn't named after Barbara Kean anyway, at least not in post-Crisis continuity, though maybe she was in The New 52.

Anyway, it's been years since there was any realistic prospect of the Gotham universe growing into anything remotely like a close duplicate of the comics continuity. It's long since gone off in its own unique direction.
The point is, at this stage it's just going to be weird to think that there will maybe/probably be someone called Barbara Gordon in this world, whatever her connection to Jim may be.
 
It's Gotham. Weird is part of the job.
Wrong brand of weird. Bizarre and demented, fine, but that is just odd in a plot logic sense.
It'd be like Batman taking on a Robin who coincidentally has the same name as Joe Chill or something (yes, I know "Joe" isn't a very good example.)
 
Wrong brand of weird. Bizarre and demented, fine, but that is just odd in a plot logic sense.
It'd be like Batman taking on a Robin who coincidentally has the same name as Joe Chill or something (yes, I know "Joe" isn't a very good example.)

Why worry about it? There's no way the show is going to be around long enough for Batgirl to happen.
 
I tried to watch this last night. I haven't watched since early in the first season, as the writing drove me away. I've vaguely remained aware of things happening on the show, mostly through osmosis. But a couple of people I work with were hyped, so I figured I'd at least try the season 3 finale.

Man is this show terrible. In some places it veers into "so bad, it's good" territory. But mostly it just left me with a headache. How are Bruce and Gordon both not in jail? Bruce especially, since the police have him at the scene of a major bio-terrorism attack, and his fingerprints are all over the detonator. And Gordon remains as much the criminal as the "villains" he's hunting. Thought at least I don't recall him outright murdering anybody last night. So, I suppose, progress?

I'm still not fan of this take on Penguin. It just doesn't work for me. Riddler was similarly over the top, but they do bounce off each other pretty well. And I'll give them points for putting so many Batman villains in just two hours. Penguin, Riddler, Freeze, Ivy, Catwoman (sorta), Hugo Strange, was that a female Firefly? The show's take on Strange I actually liked, though that may be due to the uncontrollable likability of BD Wong.

But what a waste of Alexander Siddig! All the hype for that? Maybe he'll return now that this show is getting another year.

Honestly, the best bits were the Bruce and Alfred scenes. They at least seemed to adhere to their own internal logic, and the two actors really went for it. A close second were the scenes between Bruce and Selina. The two younger cast members do a nice job even with some of the ridiculous material. But Gordon remains completely unlikable, completely corrupt, and completely incapable of actually emoting in a scene. I remembered how much I'd come to loathe this character in just the two episodes of last evening.
 
What an amazing Season. I never thought Gotham would become the most amazing DC TV Show in a while. Three years ago I thought it was just going to be a plain boring Nolan-esque TV Series with superficial development into Batman's Mythos. Now it has such personality, it's so distinct from other DCTV Shows, I just want this thing to be on air forever.

The Season 4 Opener Episode will probably be most amazing yet. Bruce already started his Vigilante thing and with a little time jump, the real Bat-drama begins. :D If David Mazouz is going to slowly take a bigger part in being the show's main action hero and Ben McKenzie is also set on a path to be more like Commissioner Gordon than Killer Gordon, we are probably going to a see a nice change of pace in the series overall. They got rid of a bunch of characters, there's the addition of some nice traditional elements like the Iceberg Lounge and the main plot seems to be centered around the League of Assassins.

And, oh, I loved Alexander Siddig's Ras... Even his hair seems to be ripped directly from a comic book page. Nice.
 
I did like Barbara telling Gordon to use his inside growl. I know I've mentioned it before but why does Ben Mackenzie do that? In interviews, he speaks with a normal voice so it's definitely an affectation for the character but it's kind of an odd choice. Maybe he feels compelled since he's a lead in a Batman series and it's his channeling of Bale and other's Bat-voices.
 
Why worry about it? There's no way the show is going to be around long enough for Batgirl to happen.

And there's no way it's going to be around for Batman to happen in a meaningful way, (except perhaps in the final shot of the last season.) The whole premise of this show is about foreshadowing what the audience knows is to come.
Barbara Gordon is as much an intrinsic part of the Batman mythos as Jim Gordon, Alfred and Selina Kyle, so it's hardly unreasonable to speculate on how she could possibly fit into what they've built to date.
 
The whole premise of this show is about foreshadowing what the audience knows is to come.

Except there's no single "right" answer to what happens in Batman's career. It's been interpreted many different ways in the comics and various adaptations, and anyone with any sense about how fiction works understands that adaptations are allowed to change things. In one comics continuity, Babs Gordon was Jim's biological daughter; in another, she was his niece whom he adopted when her parents were killed in a drag-racing accident (I just happened to read that story yesterday). In the Burton/Schumacher continuity, she was Barbara Wilson and was Alfred's niece with no connection to Gordon. In the animated series The Batman, Batgirl was Batman's sidekick before Robin; in the animated series Beware the Batman, teenage Barbara was helping Batman as a hacker called Oracle while his sidekick in the field was Katana. And so on. There is no destiny here. Adaptations get to change things. That's what the word "adapt" means. There's no point in doing a new version of a story if you don't do it differently. And Gotham is perhaps the most "different" version of the Batman mythos I've ever seen.
 
Batgirl is hardly some obscure element of a single version of the Batman mythos who may or may not be included from one iteration to the next and isn't all that important. You're thinking of Batwoman. No, after Robin, Babs is by far the most important part of the Bat Family and she always shows up, sooner or later.

This show may play with the mythology a bit, but not *that* much. It still likes to remain loyal to the spirit of the source material, not not necessarily the letter.

So the point stands; what they've done with Barbara is going to make the potential future inclusion of Babs very odd *unless* they do something very different with the character next season (aside from bringing her back to life, because that's just par for the course on this show.)
 
Batgirl is hardly some obscure element of a single version of the Batman mythos who may or may not be included from one iteration to the next and isn't all that important. You're thinking of Batwoman. No, after Robin, Babs is by far the most important part of the Bat Family and she always shows up, sooner or later.

Again, so what? Gotham is never going to get there. At this point, you're arguing for the sake of being argumentative. How many Batgirls can dance on the head of a pin?
 
Again, so what? Gotham is never going to get there. At this point, you're arguing for the sake of being argumentative. How many Batgirls can dance on the head of a pin?
All I said was, it's going to be weird. You're the one that insisted on arguing it into the ground.
 
Except there's no single "right" answer to what happens in Batman's career. It's been interpreted many different ways in the comics and various adaptations, and anyone with any sense about how fiction works understands that adaptations are allowed to change things. In one comics continuity, Babs Gordon was Jim's biological daughter; in another, she was his niece whom he adopted when her parents were killed in a drag-racing accident (I just happened to read that story yesterday). In the Burton/Schumacher continuity, she was Barbara Wilson and was Alfred's niece with no connection to Gordon. In the animated series The Batman, Batgirl was Batman's sidekick before Robin; in the animated series Beware the Batman, teenage Barbara was helping Batman as a hacker called Oracle while his sidekick in the field was Katana. And so on. There is no destiny here. Adaptations get to change things. That's what the word "adapt" means. There's no point in doing a new version of a story if you don't do it differently. And Gotham is perhaps the most "different" version of the Batman mythos I've ever seen.
You have just refuted your own comment that it can't happen on this show.
We have seen Jim's uncle, and there was nothing to indicate that he didn't have a daughter. She could very easily appear next season as a teenager with some gymnastic training and some computer hacking talents, interested in finding out what happened to her father.
 
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