What research scientists have even been presented as commissioned officers?
Why is there resistance to the idea of Starfleet being military?
- Thread starter The Wormhole
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Jeager in The Squire of Gothos.
Well, I did say "without the HORROR", and that includes "The Company". ;-) But seriously, since Section 31 has been used in 'Trek, you could still have the morality plays, where you have the protagonists wanting to explore for the sake of expanding one's higher pursuits, while the antagonists want to profit from space exploration.
I think most people resist seeing Starfleet as a military could be based on the connotations the word has with it. Most people (especially those with no connection to the armed forces) hear the word 'military' and jump immediately to wars and other major conflicts, which is not really what Starfleet all about. The notion of exploration and scientific endeavours probably don't tie in with what many see as more prominent military operations.
Admittedly, I'm thinking of this as one of those people who know nothing about the workings of the armed forces, other than historical context or what is on the news (which does also highlight the humanitarian and peacekeeping nature of the military).
In DS9, there was no dispute that at the time of war Starfleet is an all-out military organisation, but that does just seem to be one of the many hats that it wears.
Admittedly, I'm thinking of this as one of those people who know nothing about the workings of the armed forces, other than historical context or what is on the news (which does also highlight the humanitarian and peacekeeping nature of the military).
In DS9, there was no dispute that at the time of war Starfleet is an all-out military organisation, but that does just seem to be one of the many hats that it wears.
And Bruce Maddox. The scientist who wanted to disassemble Data. It seemed like a vast majority of the field officers were scientists. Picard, Geordi, Data, Crusher just about everyone.
And people are going to blame Gene Rodenberry for this thinking too, since most of this type of thinking occurred during his watch over the show.
You can't really blame him, as he was trying to the show away from human problems rather than run straight into them.
But from a certain point of view, it looks so "naive". It shouldn't, but it does.
Chain of Command-- A fleet of Cardassian ships are caught hiding in a Nebulae. They probably want to invade the nearby system. Captain Jerico wants to confront them. The crew acts really reluctant, suggesting they might be there for scientific research. Crusher seems annoyed that she has to get Sickbay ready in case of casualties.
That scene made it look like a crew of scientists that signed up for organization that sometimes have to do some military service, but they really hate the idea of doing anything militarily related.
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They are ready to, and successfully do, go toe-to-toe with every military in the quadrant. Where you get the above, I have no clue? But it isn't Star Trek.
400 years after he was governor of Georgia? Geez, that guy gets around.
Bruce Maddox. We really don't know which field Picard entered in, but he was a command grade officer pretty early on. Data was Operations, which is more akin to the Engineering Division than Science. LaForge was a Flight Officer first.
You might like some of Tom Clancy's books on the inner workings of specific military units, Aircraft Carriers, Submarines, Marine division and Flight Wing. I use them in writing science fiction as references to how ship life, and unit life function. I've found the carrier one most useful in writing ship board life characters.
To be clear, it doesn't seem to me that scientists are integrated into the naval chain of command as seamlessly as they are in Starfleet. There are branches of the Navy that specifically deal with research and development where this is fairly common. Oceanographic survey ships and naval warfare research centers, for example.
I would be far more surprised to find, say, a marine biologist or a geologist on an attack submarine being one of the senior officers on the ship, high enough in the command structure that he might find himself temporarily assuming command if the captain, XO and chief of the boat all got killed at the same time.
Sure they are. Just not due to an abundance of combat training or proficiency. In fact, nine times out of ten they win their military conflicts by falling back on their scientific expertise; their tendency is to treat combat situations like sophisticated engineering problems, wherein the goal is to find the most efficient way to make the enemy's ship explode.
They are ready to, and successfully do, go toe-to-toe with every military in the quadrant.
This is the other reason why "Peak Performance" is very relevant to this debate. The whole point of the Braslota War Games was to get the crew -- who believe that combat is a "minor province in the makeup of a starship captain" -- some extra practice in preparation for the Borg threat. But what exactly are the practicing in Peak Performance? Not military tactics, not even combat. The actual challenge of the war game is Riker's resourcefulness and ability to solve problems (can you restore this busted-up jalopy and get it to a condition where it can plausibly take on the Enterprise?)
In short, Starfleet officers are EXCELLENT engineers and terrifyingly effective scientists. But until the Dominion threat backs them into a corner -- and sometimes not even then -- they don't take their combat role all that seriously.
Me too, with SSN being a close second.
Deep Space Nine has them going through hundreds of hours of combat training. We see them doing target practice on the holodeck of the Enterprise-D. Voyager was "built for combat".
They are also terrifying military men and women, going around in vessels that can destroy the habitable surface of a planet. Get back to me when we start giving NOAA nukes.
Captain Jellico knew exactly how to change the Enterprise crew into a effective combat crew, and in a short period of time. Perhaps it isn't Starfleet that isn't "military," it's Picard and his particular command crew.
Jellico apparently didn't need to change anything about the Enterprise itself.
Jellico apparently didn't need to change anything about the Enterprise itself.
He had to make some power output adjustments. But it didn't seem like anything that wasn't already within the ability of the Galaxy-class.
In preparation for the Dominion War, which is what I was alluding to when I said "backed into a corner."
And I suppose Guinan, who practices at a higher level than Worf does, actually holds a rank of Master Chief Petty Officer in the Starfleet Marine Corps...
Everything Starfleet has is built for combat. Even its exploration vessels, which Voyager explicitly is:
As the only Starfleet vessel assigned to the Delta Quadrant, we'll continue to follow our directive to seek out new worlds and explore space
That is not a word I would use to describe literally anyone that had any screen time in "Haven" or "Lonely Among Us."
In fact I'd even hesitate to apply that description to anyone in "Conspiracy." Think of it: The Enterprise unexpectedly and for no reason pulls up into Earth orbit and they're greeted by a call from a couple of Admirals saying "Hello there! I didn't know you were in town! I thought you were going over to Pacifica for vacation, right? Oh well... Would you like to come over for dinner?"
I would certainly describe a typical starfleet officer as a kind of warrior scientist who can (sometimes literally) deconstruct any problem and strip it to the bolts as long as he has the right tools, even if the right tool is a hand phaser. But there's the scientific method, and then there is the martial method. Starfleet does not employ the latter.
To be perfectly honest, I'd rather give them to NOAA than the US Navy. I'm thinking the Federation feels about the same way.
That line was horse shit and you know it. What else was Janeway supposed to say?
"We're in a tin can, and are going to have to fight from system to system for seventy years. Whose with me?!?"
*crickets*
So everything Starfleet has, is built for combat? I'm not sure even the US Navy can make such a claim.
Commander McDuff had the same observation in "Conundrum." He basically singles out Worf, telling him that Picard is too soft and "We are the warriors." And Picard's final hesitation pretty much confirms the shapeshifter's suspicions: "I will not fire on defenseless people."
JELLICO: I want you to install a bypass between the main phaser array and the secondary generators. I also want to run the main deflector pathway through the warp power grid and the auxiliary conduits through the lateral relays. You may have to reconfigure the transfer interface.
DATA: Sir, the transfer interface was not designed for that configuration. It will take seven hours to make those changes.
RIKER: Sir, you may not be aware that our normal interface already routes auxiliary power through three separate relays.
JELLICO: I'm aware of your current design system. It's not good enough. If these negotiations fail, we could find ourselves in a war zone and if that happens I want to be loaded for bear.
Later:DATA: Sir, the transfer interface was not designed for that configuration. It will take seven hours to make those changes.
RIKER: Sir, you may not be aware that our normal interface already routes auxiliary power through three separate relays.
JELLICO: I'm aware of your current design system. It's not good enough. If these negotiations fail, we could find ourselves in a war zone and if that happens I want to be loaded for bear.
JELLICO: Power transfer levels need to be upgraded by twenty percent. The efficiency of your warp coils is also unsatisfactory.
LAFORGE: Coil efficiency is well within specifications, Captain.
JELLICO: I'm not interested in the specs, Geordi. The efficiency needs to be raised by at least fifteen percent.
LAFORGE: Fifteen percent.
DATA: That is an attainable goal, but it will require realigning the warp coil and taking the secondary distribution grid offline.
JELLICO: Very good, Data. That's exactly what I want you to do.
LAFORGE: If we take this grid offline, we're going to have to shut down exobiology, the astrophysics lab and geological research.
JELLICO: We're not on a research mission. Get it done in two days.
DATA: I believe that is also an attainable goal. If we utilise the entire Engineering department, there should be sufficient manpower available to complete the task.
LAFORGE: Sure, if everybody works around the clock for the next two days.
JELLICO: Then you'd better get to it, Geordi. It looks like you have some work to do. Data.
And still later:LAFORGE: Coil efficiency is well within specifications, Captain.
JELLICO: I'm not interested in the specs, Geordi. The efficiency needs to be raised by at least fifteen percent.
LAFORGE: Fifteen percent.
DATA: That is an attainable goal, but it will require realigning the warp coil and taking the secondary distribution grid offline.
JELLICO: Very good, Data. That's exactly what I want you to do.
LAFORGE: If we take this grid offline, we're going to have to shut down exobiology, the astrophysics lab and geological research.
JELLICO: We're not on a research mission. Get it done in two days.
DATA: I believe that is also an attainable goal. If we utilise the entire Engineering department, there should be sufficient manpower available to complete the task.
LAFORGE: Sure, if everybody works around the clock for the next two days.
JELLICO: Then you'd better get to it, Geordi. It looks like you have some work to do. Data.
LAFORGE: Commander, he's asked me to completely reroute half the power systems on the ship, change every duty roster, realign the warp coils in two days, and now he's transferred a third of my department to Security.
RIKER: If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone. Captain Jellico has made major changes in every department on the ship.
RIKER: If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone. Captain Jellico has made major changes in every department on the ship.
IOW, Jellico is putting the Enterprise on a war footing. Interestingly enough, he's doing things to the Enterprise that Picard didn't even do when they were getting ready to fight the Borg, and literally no one on the ship likes it.
This is because, as far as I can tell, the Enterprise has never BEEN configured for war before, even when they were getting ready to fight the Borg. This is all new and uncomfortable for them. Which, for a military organization, should be FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE.
But the most glaring one is this:
JELLICO: By the way. I prefer a certain formality on the Bridge. I'd appreciate it if you wore standard uniform when you're on duty.
When is the last time a senior officer in any military had to ASK one of his subordinates to wear a uniform while on duty? "I'd prefer that you follow uniform regulations, if you don't mind. Thanks a bunch!"
Picard saw Troi as an adviser and treated her accordingly. The rest tells me Picard and Riker were running a really lax ship that someone who wasn't even commanding a Galaxy-class knew what improvements needed to be made.
None of it points to Starfleet not being the military.
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