The New Klingons

[Mr. Laser Beam]

My only frustration is that he still treated lawyering as a type of combat.

Why is that a frustration? Lawyering IS combat.

 

[fireproof78]

Why is that a frustration? Lawyering IS combat.

Would you suggest that lawyers abide by a warriors code then?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Would you suggest that lawyers abide by a warriors code then?

The Enterprise episode "Judgement" featured a Klingon lawyer and he talks about Klingon culture and history.

ARCHER: How many cases have you won?
KOLOS: Oh, I'm not sure. Over two hundred. But that was a long time ago, when the tribunal was a forum for the truth and not a tool for the warrior class.
ARCHER: There are other classes?
KOLOS: You didn't believe all Klingons were soldiers?
ARCHER: I guess I did.
KOLOS: My father was a teacher. My mother, a biologist at the university. They encouraged me to take up the law. Now all young people want to do is take up weapons as soon as they can hold them. They're told there's honour in victory, any victory. What honour is there in a victory over a weaker opponent? Had Duras destroyed that ship he would have been lauded as a hero of the Empire for murdering helpless refugees. We were a great society not so long ago, when honour was earned through integrity and acts of true courage, not senseless bloodshed.

 

[fireproof78]

The Enterprise episode "Judgement" featured a Klingon lawyer and he talks about Klingon culture and history.

Well, now I need to rewatch that. I was more thinking of the lawyer that prosecuted Worf, but that's a great example.

 

[Tosk]

My only frustration is that he still treated lawyering as a type of combat.

There are two opposing sides and each one is trying their best to win using the tools at their disposal.

Be thankful the Klingon chef didn't talk about the honor of doing battle with recipes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There are two opposing sides and each one is trying their best to win using the tools at their disposal.

Be thankful the Klingon chef didn't talk about the honor of doing battle with recipes.

Iron Chef Qo'noS

 

[fireproof78]

There are two opposing sides and each one is trying their best to win using the tools at their disposal.

Be thankful the Klingon chef didn't talk about the honor of doing battle with recipes.

 

[Trekkin]

Would you suggest that lawyers abide by a warriors code then?

You know our profession originated with the use of 'champions' in duelling, right?

 

[fireproof78]

You know our profession originated with the use of 'champions' in duelling, right?

Does that explain why people want to shoot lawyers?

 

[Trekkin]

Yes.

Well, that and our habit of using our phones at the dinner table.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Sorry if I missed this...but any word on if they will at least retain the Klingon language? (written and/or spoken)

I hope we will also see (like nuBSG with Cylons), the old Klingon armor in some fashion. I think it still stands the test of time.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

You know our profession originated with the use of 'champions' in duelling, right?

The legal profession started in Ancient Greece with the orators of Athens. That's almost 20 centuries before early modern European dueling.

 

[Myko]

Sorry if I missed this...but any word on if they will at least retain the Klingon language? (written and/or spoken)

Nothing official has been said, but there have been tweets from some of the Klingon actors in "standard" Klingonese.

 

[dahj]

tweets from some of the Klingon actors in "standard" Klingonese.

Well that doesn't mean anything, half the Galaxy speaks Klingonese...

 

[Trekkin]

The legal profession started in Ancient Greece with the orators of Athens. That's almost 20 centuries before early modern European dueling.

1. Orators were literally anyone who speechified in public. They also put words into the mouths of their clients friends, instead of simply acting as an extension of the client's will. It's probably the closest counterpart, but it's rather not the same thing.
2. The courts at the time didn't really deal with matters of law, but were more focused on equity. It certainly wasn't a common law system, which is my profession.
3. The Greeks developed their court system to prevent family members from championing their wronged loved one, and sorta-legally axe murdering the person responsible on the street.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

1. Orators were literally anyone who speechified in public. They also put words into the mouths of their clients friends, instead of simply acting as an extension of the client's will. It's probably the closest counterpart, but it's rather not the same thing.

The Ancient Athenian Orators pleaded their "friends" cases in court. That "friend" then showed his "appreciation" but not in public. They were lawyers in everything but name.

2. The courts at the time didn't really deal with matters of law, but were more focused on equity. It certainly wasn't a common law system, which is my profession.

There were Tort Laws, Family Laws, Public Laws, Procedural Laws, etc. In Ancient Athens there was the Areopagus Council, the Palladion Court, the Delphinion Court, the Prytaneion court, etc.

3. The Greeks developed their court system to prevent family members from championing their wronged loved one, and sorta-legally axe murdering the person responsible on the street.

So we're in agreement then that the legal profession originated in Ancient Greece.

 

[Trekkin]

The Ancient Athenian Orators pleaded their "friends" cases in court. That "friend" then showed his "appreciation" but not in public. They were lawyers in everything but name.

There's a bit more to being a lawyer than that. You can still appoint any schlub to plead your case, if you like.* The judge probably won't allow it due to the massive opening it leaves for appeal, but you can try.

* With a caveat for jurisdictional differences.

There were Tort Laws, Family Laws, Public Laws, Procedural Laws, etc.

Yes. But they mostly weren't common law (or precedent, whatever you prefer.) Most law was statute, some was canon. It got you into the court, but it didn't tend to dictate the result.

So we're in agreement then that the legal profession originated in Ancient Greece.

No. And I ain't just talking about how the Greeks lacked the adversarial and inquisitorial systems that now encompass most of the world.

'Legal profession' is a rather wider umbrella than just lawyers. If we're counting the Athenian system (which basically consisted of a trying to convince a jury that this shit is unfair, and you could use nearly any which way to do so), then you have to include every darn iteration of trials and tribunals since the dawn of time. Which would be an endless list, because most cultures have always had that.

Which is why we kind restrict things to the origins of the modern adversarial and inquisitorial systems. The latter of which particularly bares little resemblance to the Greek method.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

There's a bit more to being a lawyer than that. You can still appoint any schlub to plead your case, if you like.* The judge probably won't allow it due to the massive opening it leaves for appeal, but you can try.

* With a caveat for jurisdictional differences.



Yes. But they mostly weren't common law (or precedent, whatever you prefer.) Most law was statute, some was canon. It got you into the court, but it didn't tend to dictate the result.



No. And I ain't just talking about how the Greeks lacked the adversarial and inquisitorial systems that now encompass most of the world.

'Legal profession' is a rather wider umbrella than just lawyers. If we're counting the Athenian system (which basically consisted of a trying to convince a jury that this shit is unfair, and you could use nearly any which way to do so), then you have to include every darn iteration of trials and tribunals since the dawn of time. Which would be an endless list, because most cultures have always had that.

Which is why we kind restrict things to the origins of the modern adversarial and inquisitorial systems. The latter of which particularly bares little resemblance to the Greek method.

You are now arguing about the origins of the (modern?) legal system. We were discussing the origins of the legal profession, those who practise law, lawyers, attorneys, solicitors, barristers, legal advisors, legal representatives, etc.

 

[Trekkin]

No. My comment was very much about our (my) profession. A solicitor/lawyer in modern courts.

You know our profession originated with the use of 'champions' in duelling, right?

Come to think of it, soliciting removes me even further from an orator. Most non-barristers rarely do anything resembling 'orating.' It's actively discouraged.

Well, except maybe judges and magistrates. Who didn't have that role in Ancient Greece.

 

[fireproof78]

No. My comment was very much about our (my) profession. A solicitor/lawyer in modern courts.



Come to think of it, soliciting removes me even further from an orator. Most non-barristers rarely do anything resembling 'orating.' It's actively discouraged.

Well, except maybe judges and magistrates. Who didn't have that role in Andient Greece.

Might want to check your spelling, because I can't find "Andient Greece" any where