"Gee Beav, you're sure gonna get a hollerin' from Dad when he gets home."
"But Wally, Eddie told me they weren't Klingons if they didn't have ridges!"
'White genocide in space': Racist "fans" seething at racial diversity in Discovery...
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"Gee Beav, you're sure gonna get a hollerin' from Dad when he gets home."
"But Wally, Eddie told me they weren't Klingons if they didn't have ridges!"
I figured she was meant to be some ancestor of Tom Paris given all the other 50th anniversary references. But they hired the actress and forgot why they named her. I guess it's still possible that she's an ancestor.
Um, didn't that happen with WW2 as well with the Japanese or the Germans? My mom' uncle was lucky to get a job with Westinghouse being a German immigrant right at the start of WW2.
I mean, that happens a lot more than just right now, I think.
We're supposed to learn and grow from our mistakes. Not backslide into the mind frame of people from a time period where they didn't know any better.
Fear, in the long run, only leads us to eating each other.
I'm not disagreeing on that point, but there are still some underlying tensions that we need to grow out of. 60 years is a relatively short time in the span of human history.
Reminds me of this bit from ENT:
Sub-Commander T'Pol: It remains to be seen whether Humanity will revert to its baser instincts.
Commander Charles 'Trip' Tucker III: Well, we used to have cannibals on Earth. Who knows how far we'll revert? Lucky this isn't a long mission.
Capt. Jonathan Archer: Human instinct is pretty strong. You can't expect us to change overnight.
Welcome to Earth.
I'm trying to respond you leaving my own political beliefs aside but it's kinda hard.
Sorry in advance if anything I say is rude in any way. English is not my native language so sounding civil in these debates still is a WIP for me.Well, let's just say I'm not much of a fan of trying to make people that believe in opposite things the same just because they are on the ends of that spectrum. And that I don't really believe there's one single individual, manifesto or work of art that is truly neutral and nurtures the points of view from "both sides". I think one way or the other we all end up on just one side of the discussion.
So that being said, yeah, I agree there's a lot of things to nitpick from a Far-Left point of view about DS9. However, there's much more to lose if you look to DS9 from a Far-Right point of view. It's a TV show where the morals in the stories are from a futuristic Classless and Moneyless Society. A Society in which Racism and Sexism belong to History books. It's a future in a complete opposite direction from the Future these Infowars types of people want.
Maybe it's not good enough for people in the Far-Left of the spectrum, yeah, but if you ask them if they wanted to live in that Utopia they would say "Hell yeah!" in an instant. Far-Right types would not or at least would hesitate a lot. What's more probable is that they would make end-of-the-world headlines about it like they did with DSC.
Even if it didn't always live up to it on screen, I still think that the message and themes of diverse people coming together for the greater good is still important, and needs to be embraced. Hell, with the way things are now, I think it's more important than ever, and I really hope DSC remembers that.
As for later Trek not really pushing the diversity envelope like it could have, I blame a lot of that on Berman. I think he was just so obsessed with staying true to "the vision" from the '80s, that he wouldn't allow it to evolve into what it needed to be in the '90s and 00's.
As for later Trek not really pushing the diversity envelope like it could have, I blame a lot of that on Berman. I think he was just so obsessed with staying true to "the vision" from the '80s, that he wouldn't allow it to evolve into what it needed to be in the '90s and 00's.
It was Roddenberry's show and he bragged about how this time there wouldn't be interference by the networks. We got shows like "Code of Honor" and "Justice", even good episodes did little to push boundaries. Roddenberry damaged his own legacy far more than anyone else could with his handling of early TNG.
Roddenberry died in 1991. He was out of the picture in most of the 90s, if not sooner, and all of the 00s.
Yep. And Berman tried to live up to how Roddenberry ran things. All one has to do is look at TNG season one and see where Roddenberry failed to do anything that challenged the views of the time. Berman carried that on, for the most part.
So, you're agreeing with @JD, then?
I never said I disagreed, I was pointing out that Roddenberry himself was the root of the problem.
Yep. Roddenberry was not really interested in alienating any potential viewers whatever by courting any controversy other than his fascination with sex. Read the various accounts of his refusal to green light scripts featuring gay characters. Of course, this stuff is customarily blamed on his lawyer who was supposedly openly homophobic...but that don't make it so.
OK, but @JD's post basically granted that fact to begin with, when referring to "the vision" from the '80s. At least that's how I read it.
Carry on.
I think he maintained or increased diversity about as much as he could with DS9 and Voyager. I do wonder though if, at least subconsciously, after them he thought going back to having a white Kirk/Riker/Picard type as captain would make Enterprise more popular.
What shows of the late '80s and early '90s do you think did a lot of boundary-pushing with either the casts or stories?
I thought more viewers thought it was smugly preachy rather than bland and toothless. Blasting the idea of giving weapons to a side in a conflict seems pretty challenging.
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I actually blame the studio for the failures of the 90s more than Berman or the rest of the staff.
I mean, I'm fairly confident that it was the studio that turned what might have been a fairly provocative issue-oriented episode like "Rejoined" into an obvious ratings grab.
Or it was the studio who took a talented, multi-faceted woman like Jeri Ryan and turned her into a puerile fantasy object.
I mean, I'm fairly confident that it was the studio that turned what might have been a fairly provocative issue-oriented episode like "Rejoined" into an obvious ratings grab.
Or it was the studio who took a talented, multi-faceted woman like Jeri Ryan and turned her into a puerile fantasy object.
Change to the 1970's American way, and I'd be down with that. I mean, the '70s was the pinnacle of Western civilization after all.
I give them credit for a political statement about international cooperation with the introduction of Chekov, but none for diversity - kid who grew up in Chicago putting on a comic Russian accent and going on about "Russia inwented that" and "wodka?" Under any other circumstances we'd just call that invidious stereotyping.
IIRC, Man From UNCLE's Russian wasn't played for laughs. So again, we a a contemporary show doing it. better.
It depended on the episode. Chekov's role in some TOS episodes was actually fairly smart, and the back up for Spock at the science station.
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