Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

[Marc]

Your any given Sunday point doesn't really work though. This wasn't viewed as a lucky win by Superman. With the fate of the Earth in the balance he told Kara to be the champion and at that point put her as stronger than him.

Because he wants to support her and give her confidence before going into battle against Rhea and for Supergirl that's very important. Iirc we've seen instances where she's had doubts and it hasn't turned out well for her.

TLR Supergirl draws strength not only from yellow star radiation but the confidence others have in her and a large degree of self confidence.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Let's face it if CW had a chance to do Superman on tv do you think they would choose Supergirl over Superman?

Yes.

 

[DigificWriter]

It's getting to the point where I think everyone should just ignore everything Kirk Prime says because he clearly doesn't care about anything other than his own warped view of reality, and arguing with him is therefore pointless.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Regarding Supergirl, having watched the episode, they DID write Superman as submissive to Supergirl. After the fight, they made it a point to have Clark talk about how he was at full strength and how she beat him.

That just sounds like humility and/or honesty?

 

[Jayson1]

Yes.[/QUOTE
Actually they did already did Superman first with "Smallville." I just don't see them turning down Superman over anything other than a Batman show. I think they are happy with "Supergirl" because I think she has a higher profile than the Arrow character or the Legends but it's crazy to think they wouldn't got for the heavy hitters who are usually staring in movies.
I actually though do see a day when Supergirl gets another movie. She is mainstream enough to have people intrested and the show has proably made even newer fans.

Jason

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Just because Superman is the better known character it doesn't mean he's always the first option. As you pointed there's recently been Smallville, and countless other incarnations, and part of the backlash with BvS is Superman/Batman fatigue. A Supergirl series gives audiences a new(ish) character who many people will know little about, and attract audiences that way.

In addition, female superheroes are slowly making their way into the mainstream more and more, which Supergirl caters to A, from a moneymaking jumping on a trend way but also more importanlty B, the series has always been about female empowerment, just like BtVS, so no, I don't see why the producers would have gone with Superman if they had the option.

 

[DigificWriter]

Moving on from arguing about sexism, it's been confirmed that Season 3's "Big Bad" is indeed Reign, as was widely suspected, with casting for the role currently underway ahead of the series' July 6th resumption of production.

It will be interesting to see how closely, if at all, the show's version of the character resembles her comics counterpart, and whether or not we'll see the other Worldkillers at some point.

 

[Kirk Prime]

That just sounds like humility and/or honesty?

From the in episode/character point of view--sure. But the writers were the ones made this decision to weaken Superman.

They didn't have to do that.

It's getting to the point where I think everyone should just ignore everything Kirk Prime says because he clearly doesn't care about anything other than his own warped view of reality, and arguing with him is therefore pointless.

So let's see--because I don't agree with you, my opinion is warped. And that warrants personal attacks as well. Got it.

Just because Superman is the better known character it doesn't mean he's always the first option. As you pointed there's recently been Smallville, and countless other incarnations, and part of the backlash with BvS is Superman/Batman fatigue. A Supergirl series gives audiences a new(ish) character who many people will know little about, and attract audiences that way.

I love the idea of a Supergirl series, and feel that with the exception of some decisions, and notably the last 2 episodes, it has been done very well. I wish the writers would just focus on making a good superhero show and less on imposing their politics like they did the last 2 episodes. Flash and Arrow both had tremendous closing episodes.

There is no issue with a female lead, a female superhero, and Supergirl having the big fight with Rhea. But they didn't have to demean Superman to do that.

The first appearance of Superman was close to perfect. Kara was every bit as important as Superman but they did nothing to make Superman seem lesser. This time they decided to do that, and it didn't go over well with everyone. Feeling that way does not make one sexist. What's sad is that it's not only the go to comment for those that like to be outraged and on a soapbox, it diminishes real sexism.

 

[Skipper]

I just want to remind that Superman was not written consistently throughout his career. Actually for the first decades he was quite a dick. I mean, there is an entire site dedicated to his acts of dickery!
Superdickery

The modern image of him as a kind of "Space Jesus" was born in the 70's thanks to writers like Elliot S! Maggin

 

[BillJ]

From the in episode/character point of view--sure. But the writers were the ones made this decision to weaken Superman.

They didn't have to do that.

What the fuck does it really matter? There are hundreds of versions of Superman, I'm sure you can find some where Superman beats up on women.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

What the fuck does it really matter? There are hundreds of versions of Superman, I'm sure you can find some where Superman beats up on women.

Now you have me wondering just how big the market is for something like that.

On second thought, I don't want to know.

 

[Mudd]

From the in episode/character point of view--sure. But the writers were the ones made this decision to weaken Superman.

He's not at all weakened.

Anyway, you haven't made any argument so far other than "a woman shouldn't be able to beat a man in a fight." It all boils down to that.

 

[Skipper]

What the fuck does it really matter? There are hundreds of versions of Superman, I'm sure you can find some where Superman beats up on women.

The Injustice version for example?

 

[Mudd]

God, that's ugly.

 

[Skipper]

God, that's ugly.

This is one of the lesser evil things that he did in the Injustice comics.

That, I have to say, it's an excellent reading.

DC Comics' Injustice Is the Best Evil Superman Story of All Time

 

[Robert Maxwell]

From the in episode/character point of view--sure. But the writers were the ones made this decision to weaken Superman.

They didn't have to do that.

I can't imagine it's any skin off your ass that they did, though.

I love the idea of a Supergirl series, and feel that with the exception of some decisions, and notably the last 2 episodes, it has been done very well. I wish the writers would just focus on making a good superhero show and less on imposing their politics like they did the last 2 episodes. Flash and Arrow both had tremendous closing episodes.

"Imposing their politics" always seems to be used as code for "presenting a message I personally find uncomfortable." Because any message you already agree with is somehow not political.

There is no issue with a female lead, a female superhero, and Supergirl having the big fight with Rhea. But they didn't have to demean Superman to do that.

I'm sure Superman will get over it.

The first appearance of Superman was close to perfect. Kara was every bit as important as Superman but they did nothing to make Superman seem lesser. This time they decided to do that, and it didn't go over well with everyone. Feeling that way does not make one sexist. What's sad is that it's not only the go to comment for those that like to be outraged and on a soapbox, it diminishes real sexism.

I just find it weird that apparently one fight where Superman loses is enough for him to be tarnished forever. What, dude never lost a fight before? I'm no expert on Superman mythos but I know for a fact he's lost plenty of fights.

Or is this one only a big deal because he lost to *gasp* a girl?

 

[MadeIndescribable]

I just want to remind that Superman was not written consistently throughout his career. Actually for the first decades he was quite a dick. I mean, there is an entire site dedicated to his acts of dickery!
Superdickery

The modern image of him as a kind of "Space Jesus" was born in the 70's thanks to writers like Elliot S! Maggin

Speaking of, weren't many of his now well established powers (like flight) merely add ons that were never there at his inception?

Isn't part of having different incarnations having different aspects, etc. If comic book Superman is unbeatable, fair enough, but that doesn't mean Every-Single-Superman-Ever has to be...

 

[Kirk Prime]

Anyway, you haven't made any argument so far other than "a woman shouldn't be able to beat a man in a fight." It all boils down to that.

Actually that's not true. I've said that no one should beat Superman in a fair fight. The commentary about women beating men in a fair fight came as a result of the baseless claims of sexism and the decision to ignore biology in favor of ideology. An in shape, well trained woman, would stand no chance against an in shape, well trained man. That's not sexism. That's biology--something that can only be overcome in fiction, but not in the real world.

In fiction however, Superman is the ultimate symbol of heroism, goodness, strength, power, and wisdom. In this episode, he was treated as inferior to Kara and written to go around telling everyone so. They felt the need to pump up Kara by weakening Superman, which was out of character for Superman. Again, not sexist, as it would be the same even if Kara were a man.

"Imposing their politics" always seems to be used as code for "presenting a message I personally find uncomfortable." Because any message you already agree with is somehow not political.

.

No. It means imposing their politics. The man hating of the last two episodes is not a message I find uncomfortable--it's a message I don't agree with and has no place on a superhero show. Shilling for the democrat party like they did in the episode before this one is not an uncomfortable message, it's imposing their beliefs on the viewer on a superhero show.

If anyone is acting uncomfortable, it's the people crying sexism and hurling personal insults because THEIR opinions are being challenged.

Because any message you already agree with is somehow not political.

I don't think you grasp what political means if that's your definition. So if I think taxes should be lowered, and a politician says that, it's not political because I agree with it?

I can't imagine it's any skin off your ass that they did, though.

It isn't, but expressing my opinion on that subject in a forum that is designed for doing just that isn't exactly beyond the scope.

I just find it weird that apparently one fight where Superman loses is enough for him to be tarnished forever. What, dude never lost a fight before? I'm no expert on Superman mythos but I know for a fact he's lost plenty of fights.

Or is this one only a big deal because he lost to *gasp* a girl?

Again, putting words into other people. It has nothing to do with Kara being a girl. It has to do with him being the ultimate force for good, for 80 years, and losing to an opponent that is less experienced, and given that they are the same species, physically weaker. The writers made some choices that absolutely weakens the character, not because he lost to a girl, but because he lost at all, and then spent the rest of the episode running around telling everyone she was his better. That's not Superman.

 

[Mudd]

Byrne re-established most of Superman's powers as "psionic" in nature, an attempt to put a sciency-sounding gloss on the original silly and out-grown explanations ("Earth's lower gravity" is not a sufficient explanation for super-strength at the levels that Clark now exhibits it).

Actually that's not true. I've said that no one should beat Superman in a fair fight.

"Should" is a useless word when it runs up against contradictory information. Superman gets beat in fair fights repeatedly throughout his history. This was just the latest instance.

We're only having this argument because a girl beat him.

 

[Skipper]

Speaking of, weren't many of his now well established powers (like flight) merely add ons that were never there at his inception?.

Yep!
He officially flied the firs time in the 1943’s Action Comics #65.
When he used for the first time the heat vision is a little more complicated...
When Did Superman's Heat Vision Start?