Spoilers-Alien Covenant contradictions.

[Solarbaby]

I watched Alien Covenant last night and I was extremely disappointed despite not really expecting much from the poor trailers. Some things didn't make sense. What I think I learnt is that David dropped a biological weapon on the engineers humanoid race first seen in Prometheus and destroyed all non botanical life by turning them into protomorphs. If every single animal life form was turned where's all the skeletal remains after they died out from eventual starvation when all animals or aliens died? Surely the surface would be littered.

David created the face hugger/ xenomorph species through experimentation with hybrid protomorphs. That's the best story they could come up with? Yawn! So if at the end of the 21st century David did create this species why is there evidence of the xenomorph that we recognise from the Alien franchise in Predator films? The head is a trophy in the Predator's lair which is set over a 100 years before David supposedly creates this version of alien. Plus alien vs predator series. It all contradicts whats been seen on screen.

Another plot point soon forgotten is whether or not someone engineered the neutrino event /solar flare that damaged the covenant and forced them to go off course to the planet from Prometheus. Too massive a coincidence to be random, but it's never mentioned again after the acting captain brings it up.

 

[lurok]

The other one that bugged me is in the film it seems to be made out that David killed Shaw and used her for his experiments. Apart from possibly sloppy writing (and a shitty way to treat the character), in the prologue teasers Scott put out there was all the stuff about David seemingly liking Shaw (an obvious emotional arc hangover from Prometheus). Of course he could just be the duplicitous synthetic ubermensch he's portrayed as in this film.

Also, while not unique to this film, if you've seen most if not all of the trailer/teaser/viral/B-roll videos - or even seen Alien and Aliens - you can figure out pretty much every plot beat.

 

[Solarbaby]

The other one that bugged me is in the film it seems to be made out that David killed Shaw and used her for his experiments. Apart from possibly sloppy writing (and a shitty way to treat the character), in the prologue teasers Scott put out there was all the stuff about David seemingly liking Shaw (an obvious emotional arc hangover from Prometheus). Of course he could just be the duplicitous synthetic ubermensch he's portrayed as in this film.

Also, while not unique to this film, if you've seen most if not all of the trailer/teaser/viral/B-roll videos - or even seen Alien and Aliens - you can figure out pretty much every plot beat.

Good points. I've seen them all. Someone else mentioned some art work of xenomorphs
in Prometheus which is set before their creation.

 

[Tosk]

All you have to do is assume that David (either accidentally or intentionally) re-created the xeno. We've already seen how close you can get if you cross an Engineer with that big octo-thing in Prometheus. The Deacon may not look like the classic Alien, but it's obviously close.

Although, I'm down for anything that makes AvP 1 & 2 not count any more.

 

[Turtletrekker]

All you have to do is assume that David (either accidentally or intentionally) re-created the xeno. We've already seen how close you can get if you cross an Engineer with that big octo-thing in Prometheus. The Deacon may not look like the classic Alien, but it's obviously close.

Although, I'm down for anything that makes AvP 1 & 2 not count any more.

The "re-creating the xeno" thing makes sense, but I actually enjoyed AvP more than Prometheus.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Although, I'm down for anything that makes AvP 1 & 2 not count any more.

I thought they already didn't count?

 

[Tosk]

I actually enjoyed AvP more than Prometheus.

That's okay, I like lots of bad movies too.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I thought they already didn't count?

As I understand it, Fox considers the AVP films a separate franchise (and thus, a separate license) from either the Alien or Predator films. Also, I understand that Prometheus is considered a separate franchise from Alien. Assuming that's true (and I have no reason to doubt it; I have it on good authority), I'm not sure where Covenant would fall -- is it with Alien or is it with Prometheus? From a consumer standpoint, it doesn't really matter a whole heck of a lot, and with the licenses Fox has shown great willingness to let them mix and match (for instance, Dark Horse's recent slate of crossover world events).

 

[Timby]

The other one that bugged me is in the film it seems to be made out that David killed Shaw and used her for his experiments. Apart from possibly sloppy writing (and a shitty way to treat the character), in the prologue teasers Scott put out there was all the stuff about David seemingly liking Shaw (an obvious emotional arc hangover from Prometheus). Of course he could just be the duplicitous synthetic ubermensch he's portrayed as in this film.

David was always fond of Shaw, because she was the only person who treated him with a measure of respect.

So in his own fucked-up way, he thanked her -- because she couldn't bear children of her own, he allowed her to be the "mother" of a new species through his experiments.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As I understand it, Fox considers the AVP films a separate franchise (and thus, a separate license) from either the Alien or Predator films. Also, I understand that Prometheus is considered a separate franchise from Alien. Assuming that's true (and I have no reason to doubt it; I have it on good authority), I'm not sure where Covenant would fall -- is it with Alien or is it with Prometheus? From a consumer standpoint, it doesn't really matter a whole heck of a lot, and with the licenses Fox has shown great willingness to let them mix and match (for instance, Dark Horse's recent slate of crossover world events).

Never mind all the legal stuff, I just mean that the AVP films are probably not in continuity with the Prometheus/Alien ones. For example, how can one reconcile the two different Weyland corporations (one headed by Peter, the other by Charles - who are almost certainly not related)?

 

[KennyB]

Meh---just walked out of theater and felt disappointed. Will take a bit to process.

 

[PhotoBoy]

I re-watched Prometheus before watching Covenant and I actually think I liked Prometheus more... that might just be because I've had a while to make peace with all the stupid stuff in that film though.

So spoilers obviously. I saw the switch at the end coming from a mile off and they didn't even do it properly. During the struggle between Daniels and David, she stabs him in the chin with the nail on her necklace, yet that injury is missing in all the subsequent scenes. I thought stabbing him in the chin was a vaguely weird thing to include in the fight until it became clear they were going to leave the audience guessing about which android came back with them. I thought they would then pay off the hole in the chin right at the end, except we got plenty of shots of David's unblemished chin which means they didn't bother to keep continuity with that fight (despite David copying Walter's other facial injuries).

This film definitely had too much in common with Alien 3, not only do they kill off the one likeable survivor from the previous film but they also managed to once again magically get an Alien aboard the ship despite there being no way David could have smuggled an egg up there to impregnate the security guy. The only sense I can make of that one is David slapped a new gauze on the guy's face on the cargo loader and it was loaded with those spores, but that shouldn't have birthed a full Xenomorph 1.0, just one of those lumpy white beta versions. I'm pretty sure only the captain got face huggered unless I missed something?

The incubation times and growth speed of the Aliens seemed way off too. IIRC it took about a day for the facehugger to come off Kane in Alien, yet in this one it seemed to stay on for about 10 minutes and then the alien was born and it was fully grown about 10 minutes after that!

The planet of the engineers was pretty disappointing too. I was really hoping for a Giger-esque biomechanical nightmare but instead it looked like a load of Roman ruins.

I wasn't particularly impressed with Jed Kurzel's score either. The best bits of it were all written by Jerry Goldsmith 35 years ago.

I probably sound really negative, there were a lot of good points, the action sequences were all extremely intense as were the horror sections. The final airlock sequence looked incredible too. I think if you give Ridley Scott a good script he'll knock it out of the park, but if the script has problems like Prometheus and Covenant then no matter how good he makes it look it's still not going to be great.

 

[Ethros]

Is this the review thread then?

Why did they get James Franco in it at the start as the dead husband? Was he a big fan of the franchise or something and just wanted to be in it? Haha otherwise what a waste of time.

Anyway, saw it earlier this evening. I enjoyed sitting through it... but the more I think about it now the more of a mess it seems and not that great. I honestly preferred Prometheus. Which I did actually enjoy to be fair, that's not a pithy remark. At least Prometheus had some amazing visuals; it's probably my favourite film to watch on Blu-ray to show off HD goodness.

So did they actually get Noomi Rapace back just for a youtube clip? And not actually put her in the movie?? Wtf

What happened with the plotline of "why did the Engineers create us to then want to destroy us?", which you were asking yourself all the way through Prometheus, then it got to the end and it was like "oh we're saving that for the sequel." Five years later the sequel arrives and there's no mention of it.
It didn't really follow on from Prometheus, and it didn't connect to Alien/Aliens. Great....


And I can't believe anyone in the world could watch this film and not see the David/Walter twist an absolute mile away.


That's a lot of criticims there. Like I say it was alright to sit through.. but I was really hoping for a lot more.

 

[KennyB]

And I can't believe anyone in the world could watch this film and not see the David/Walter twist an absolute mile away.


That's a lot of criticims there. Like I say it was alright to sit through.. but I was really hoping for a lot more.

These two points sum it up.........it did have some lovely shots and visuals but I was hoping for much more I guess. I heard that Franco had a few scenes cut from before they went into cryosleep. Still I was surprised to see him as well.

 

[Solarbaby]

Oh and what about "fingering'? Lmao

 

[Nightowl1701]

So spoilers obviously. I saw the switch at the end coming from a mile off and they didn't even do it properly. During the struggle between Daniels and David, she stabs him in the chin with the nail on her necklace, yet that injury is missing in all the subsequent scenes. I thought stabbing him in the chin was a vaguely weird thing to include in the fight until it became clear they were going to leave the audience guessing about which android came back with them. I thought they would then pay off the hole in the chin right at the end, except we got plenty of shots of David's unblemished chin which means they didn't bother to keep continuity with that fight (despite David copying Walter's other facial injuries).

They also showed Walter's neck stab injury completely healing over, meaning he has at least some limited self-repair capabilities. If he has it, odds are David has it too.

This film definitely had too much in common with Alien 3, not only do they kill off the one likeable survivor from the previous film but they also managed to once again magically get an Alien aboard the ship despite there being no way David could have smuggled an egg up there to impregnate the security guy. The only sense I can make of that one is David slapped a new gauze on the guy's face on the cargo loader and it was loaded with those spores, but that shouldn't have birthed a full Xenomorph 1.0, just one of those lumpy white beta versions. I'm pretty sure only the captain got face huggered unless I missed something?

He was VERY briefly facehuggered, for about ten seconds. As we saw with the black goo and the spores, the briefest contact - one drop of Alien DNA - is all it takes to start the mutation/gestation process. It must have fired that one drop down his throat as it was getting pulled off. That's also why it took longer with him than it did with the captain, who had a much longer/greater exposure.

The incubation times and growth speed of the Aliens seemed way off too. IIRC it took about a day for the facehugger to come off Kane in Alien, yet in this one it seemed to stay on for about 10 minutes and then the alien was born and it was fully grown about 10 minutes after that!

Which leads to my biggest question coming away from this film: Was the creature we saw in the third act really the prototype of the creature we see on the Nostromo 18 years later? Or - given its lightning-fast development, and chestbursting with its full adult shape - has David actually improved on 'the perfect organism'? Had this thing been on the Nostromo, the whole crew would have been dead or eggmorphed before they even had the chance to shoot Kane's body out into space.

 

[NCC-1967]

I saw the movie last tuesday, and I must say I don't get all the negative reviews. I for one loved it and thought it's an improvement over Prometheus, a film I enjoyed but was ultimately let down by a weak script.
The visuals are impressive (the scene with the Covenant unfolding its sails is breathtaking, the landing sequence also and the bombing just blew me away) and the acting is superb: Fassbender's dual role is Oscar material, Katherine Waterstone, which I had never seen acting before, was a great heroine and Danny McBride wasn't the buffoon the haters were expecting.
Of course it isn't a perfect movie (is there even such a thing, apart from 2001 that is ? ): the third act feels a bit rushed and I think the story would benefit if the "Last Supper" scene was in it: it would help us get to know the characters a bit better (for instance, in the movie we only realize Lope and the other security guy are married when the latter dies...).
As for the "I saw the final twist coming from miles away", I saw it too. That didn't prevent me from enjoying the dark ending.
Now let's just hope Sir Ridley won't take another 5 years to do the next one

P.S.: don't waste your time talking about inconsistencies between this movie and the AvP ones: Sir Ridley, being an inteligent man, chose to ignore them...

 

[Relayer1]

Now let's just hope Sir Ridley won't take another 5 years to do the next one

P.S.: don't waste your time talking about inconsistencies between this movie and the AvP ones: Sir Ridley, being an inteligent man, chose to ignore them...

I sincerely hope they won't let him anywhere near the franchise again. He's in danger of ruining his reputation.

I hope he wasn't too involved in Blade Runner 2...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Looks like I'm going to be in the minority again.

Alien: Covenant is not just beautiful and intense, it's otherworldly and sinister. I love the lowercase alien nature of the planet, the eeriness of no fauna, the revelation that it was once the Engineers' planet, destroyed by David himself. While we don't see much of the ship itself, I love the exterior design of the Covenant, particularly the solar sails.

The development of David's character is probably my favorite part of the film: Turns out, despite Elizabeth's influence, he's still a bastard. He's more interested in scientific experimentation and philosophical exploration of the meaning of life than he is with the preservation of life. His love for Shaw is twisted, reciprocated by making her a mother in the most morbid method imaginable. Elizabeth's fate is not one I expected, and while I was initially disappointed, I pushed that away because I shouldn't allow my expectations drive my opinion of what the film actually is.

Sure, the Walter/David switch was predictable, but that's not the point. The point is that moment of horror for Daniels when she realizes the truth. I loved that dark twisting-of-the-knife moment and how it concludes the film, no matter how predictable it was or how it's obviously set-up for the next film.

I was a little disappointed that the prologues didn't appear in the film (the Elizabeth segment in the case of the second one). I think the pre-cryogenic sleep scene would've fit well between the David opener and the Walter alone sequence, and while Its omission doesn't hurt the film, it would've been a nice set-up piece for the crew. It's a pity that all we get of Elizabeth and James Franco's characters are in those prologues but that's not a big deal. I'm sure plenty of people will complain about that, however.

As for the rest of the film, perhaps its a bit too by-the-numbers, but I didn't care. I largely cared about the character journeys for Daniels, Walter, and David anyways. The rest of the crew's fate was sealed by the very nature of the film itself. They're all going to die. That's the premise of every Alien film. I continue to be baffled how that's used as a criticism against Prometheus and now Covenant.

I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed Danny McBride's character considering how much I loathe Eastbound and Down. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I hope he features in the sequel.

If this turns into the Covenant review thread, since no other one has been started and people are posting their reviews here, can the thread starter or one of the moderators change the thread title accordingly and add a poll (both of which the thread starter should still be able to do)?

 

[Ethros]

The whole blowing-it-out-the-airlock at the end felt very unoriginal too, you'd think these things would learn to stay away from airlocks! Say what you will about Alien 3 but at least their method of killing it was different and cool.


As for planning two more movies, I do wonder what more you can really do with the Xenomorph creature. It's not really in Prometheus, but including this that's 7 movies they've featured in now (inc AVPs.) At the end of the day it's just a monster running around snapping it's tail and its mouth-within-a-mouth, and people running away in terror, before often getting their heads pulvarised. Familiarity breeds contempt, in this movie I just wasn't really scared of it, same old, same old.
Of course I hope I'm proved wrong, I'm just saying.