Electronic transfers, Federation paypal, bright yellow debit and credit data cards
Here is how I think the federation works without needing money.
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
Even electronic currency has to have some form of promissory, otherwise it is worthless.
I'm guessing you're talking about something like the gold standard. I would prefer to understand these issues, but I don't. We're off the gold standard, and the ship hasn't sunk yet. If something very valuable is needed to back up "credits", I would imagine the Federation has it. Why not?
I would love to work out all the financial intricacies, but unfortunately, I neglected to become an economics expert. I was not hiding some vast economics knowledge under a bushel when I said this. I made a simple conservative remark, that we can tell from watching ST that credits are used as money. I'll add that there is no implication of hatred of the concept of money in Trek. It's our present day biases which lead some of us to process what they say in this way. We see no evidence that they recoiled at the supposed evil of money and did away with it for that reason, turning everything into some futuristic commune. What they DO talk about is having done away with want. Replicators alone would do that, no philosophy needed. Maybe the new economy, whatever it is, grew out of that.
Last edited:
Not everyone is going to stay in Starfleet for decades, and if they do they will eventually retire. When they leave Starfleet, theey will need financial means.
Everythings free on Earth you say? Without finacial means they would be trapped on Earth, unable to spend their golden years on Risa or some other world with a more recognizible economic system.
Ssiko was building a house on Bajor, which has a "normal" economic sytem, how was Sisko paying for construction materials and labor?
Can't really see him mooching off the Bajorans for free labor.
As Emissary of the Prophets of Bajor, he was probably gifted the land by the Bajoran people and any number of construction firms on Bajor would have been happy to be the ones who "Built the Emissary's home". Hell, they probably had every architect on Bajor submitting plans.
Architect - "The House will house will contain 26 bedrooms and toilets made of gold plated latinum. We've got one room for each Orb and a assembly hall for the Vedek Assembly to come to you. The reflection pool will contain...."
Sisko - "I just want a four bedroom house with a small garden for cooking"
I think Sisko would have refused this generous offer and insisted on paying for the property.
I suppose it's not unlike dating to get one's jollies selfishly as opposed to building a community.
That would have been an interesting conversation.
Sisko: "How much for the land?"
Bajoran: "Oh Emissary, the land is yours".
Sisko: "I really would rather just buy it. How much?"
Bajoran: "Would you like my clothes, Emissary. I can give them to you right now..."
Sisko: "Really, just a fair price for the land is all I'm looking for."
Bajoran: "..and my sons second right of ascension is this weekend. It would mean the world...."
Sisko: "Alright, I'll take the land if you keep your shirt on!"
Probably. But I just think its funny to think about a highly religious figure trying to conduct the normal day to day affairs on a planet of followers.
The problem is, that is exactly what they were showing with Jake when he and Nog tried to get that baseball card. Off world, I guess as long as he has access to a Federation replicator he was Ok, but he was helpless involving anything that had to do with money.
Under this idea, you can kind of see a weird dependency on the Federation to feed and clothe humans, which in a way restricts them.
It makes sense that humans would earn some type of credit or currency for their work, but DS9 And TNG doubled down again and said directly that humans don't earn money or use money.
Bashirs parents took Julian outside the Federation to have his birth defect fixed, how did they (residents of Earth) pay for this? It was a illegal operation and there was no record of it, so neither Earth nor the Federation paid for it.
Bashirs parents had money that was acceptable to whoever performed the procedure.
Bashirs parents had money that was acceptable to whoever performed the procedure.
I'm pretty sure it is only EARTH that doesn't use money, because Earth has a collectivist economy where everyone contributes everything they can and then takes from the shared pool whatever they need. Earth's economy is so stupendously productive that nobody really cares if somebody is taking out more than they put in, because on the whole the net gain for the pool is high enough to absorb all of those losses a thousand times over.
Everyone else, though, they use use money. Usually latinum or some other standardized galactic currency. Earth probably uses latinum too -- at least for interstellar commerce -- but its citizens don't because they don't need to worry about regulating their exchanges.
And I figure that the Bashirs probably got paid hard currency for some medical work they did OUTSIDE of the Earth/Sol economic pool. It's probably not all that hard to source your talents out to some other cash-giving Federation member (Andor, Vulcan, Bolia, Betazed) if you're trying to get into the galactic market for some reason. Hell, it wouldn't be all that different from finding a job in the 21st century, except that while you're looking, you still have plenty of good food, shelter, water, all the comforts of home on Earth, and can take your time booking shuttles to the All-Species Fertility Center on Delta-IV for that job interview next month.
Which (imo) shows a flaw in such a system, unless you can do work outside the system (break out of the system), you are trapped inside, restricted in your abilities and movements, to engage only in those activities that those running (or who created) the system allow.
I don't see how that would be considered a "flaw." Even the restricted abilities and movements still give you LOTS of room to maneuver and lots of opportunities. It's just that if you're super ambitious and want opportunities Earth doesn't provide -- such as the ability to genetically modify your children or buy a rare baseball card from a lunatic -- you're going to have to earn some real money.
It's actually similar to the very old and well known economic problem of a businessman from one country trying to do business in a place that doesn't value his home currency. He has to earn local currency SOMEHOW, otherwise there's no way he can do business there. Usually, this can be done by simply setting up shop and selling stuff for local scrip. Doesn't matter where your merchandise is FROM, what matters is that someone's willing to pay for it in a currency that you need.
I think everyone on better developed federation worlds gets free food, housing, clothing, medical care, etc. With the advent of Replicators, material possessions no longer became the driving force in your average citizens life,.I think replicators have been around long enough in this universe, that it's simply not a big deal to people anymore, yes there will be scarcer (hand made, old/antique products out there, but those are probably looked at the way people now look at those who spent crazy amounts of time collecting vintage toys, it's neat and all but not worth the time or hassle to the average citizen) Your average person in the 24th century probably does not "hoard" things the way we do, They make something, they use it for it's purpose, and then recycle it when finished.
So when Spock was shoving bright unlabeled diskettes into the computer he was actually buying shit from Space Amazon?
No he uses the Vulcan farmers market lol
So Starfleet has numerous departments, including procurement, shipbuilding, personnel, engineering, etc.
How is all this stuff paid for?
Is Starfleet fully funded as a government agency by the Federation equivalent to the Department of Defense?
Or is it grant-funded by a combination of corporate entities, local and federal government?
Are the shipbuilders starfleet employees or sub-contractors?
How do Fleet Personnel get paid? is there a bursar on every ship giving out small stacks of gold-pressed-latinum, or some form of direct deposit?
And most importantly, what financial entity transfers negotiable instruments from department to employee?
Does Starfleet run its own banking system, or does it partner with HSBC Mars?
**(this assumes that some form of negotiable currency exists in the Federation, and that Starfleet is military. If you disagree with either premise, kindly take it to another thread!)**
How is all this stuff paid for?
Is Starfleet fully funded as a government agency by the Federation equivalent to the Department of Defense?
Or is it grant-funded by a combination of corporate entities, local and federal government?
Are the shipbuilders starfleet employees or sub-contractors?
How do Fleet Personnel get paid? is there a bursar on every ship giving out small stacks of gold-pressed-latinum, or some form of direct deposit?
And most importantly, what financial entity transfers negotiable instruments from department to employee?
Does Starfleet run its own banking system, or does it partner with HSBC Mars?
**(this assumes that some form of negotiable currency exists in the Federation, and that Starfleet is military. If you disagree with either premise, kindly take it to another thread!)**
All we know is this: The Federation has something called "credits". What exactly those are, is up for debate.
