Then why are Yoda and Obi-Wan telling him that he will be tempted by the Dark Side and is in danger of it?
Loose lipped Poe
- Thread starter Shinzon4u
- Start date
I'm sorry you have trouble understanding the movie.
I honestly couldn't tell ya why, in-universe there is no basis for what they are saying.
MY theory out of universe is that Lucas had a more simplistic "fall" story in mind for Anakin back in the 80's and was basing Yoda's comments off that unwritten backstory.
I don't though.
Luke getting angry and even joining the dark side is totally distinct from pledging himself to Palpatine.
You just said that joining the Dark Side is equal to joining with Palpatine? Now you're saying it is distinctly different?
The Dark Side is a part of the Force, and is a temptation that is being warned about from the beginning of the films. So, clearly Luke is in danger of picking the quick and easy path, of becoming enraged and being seduced by the Dark Side.
I have NEVER said that.
Never mind. Figured it out. I've read that nomenclature wrong for decades now.
Ok, trying this again, since I figured out my own mistake.
You are correct that it is totally distinct, but if he falls to the Dark Side, you don't think Palpatine couldn't manipulate him further. The ROTS novel puts it quite well in that the "how" is not as important as the "what" the person desires. The Dark Side corrupts those desires, and Plapatine would utilize Luke's desire to protect his friends to tempt him with power. What could be more appealing?
The RotS novel is also not canon. There's some really dumb stuff in that book like Anakin wanted to be a master so he has access to that Jedi archive or whatever.
I found it useful. Canon status is not as relevant as I was using it for illustration purposes.
Regardless, Luke's fall to the Dark Side would give Palpatine even more leverage against him. So, while a fall might not mean pledging loyalty to Palpatine, Palpatine could just as easily manipulate Luke in to going forward for himself, but benefiting Palpatine in the process.
No?
In RotJ, the big problem with Palpatine's plan OTHER than the fact that Luke getting angry and turning dark is distinct from joining Palp, is that Luke would most likely get angry AT Palpatine and then kill him.
Also, the RotS novel being used for illustrative purposes is misguided, as Stover takes a lot of license and doesn't necessarily present Lucas' entire intent.
Luke getting angry at Palpatine won't phase Palpatine. He can use that. Remember what Yoda says earlier, "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate you will." Palpatine looked defenseless. He wanted Luke to give in to his anger and hatred, but he was in no danger from Luke directly. This is the man that Darth Vader fears. Once the corruption takes hold of Luke, his anger, hatred, and fear will fuel Luke through the Dark Side, but that will also fuel Palpatine who can manipulate it to his will and crush Luke's spirits, get him to be the very thing eh was fighting against. And then rub Luke's face in it, as the only way he can save his friends. Nothing Luke does will stop the Emperor, and he cannot overpower the Master Sith Lord with the Dark Side of the Force. Luke will have nothing left to save his friends with accept joining Palpatine, who can give the order to not blow up Endor, or call off his troops and let the Rebels escape.
That makes no sense. If the Emperor could just brainwash/forcefully suggest things to Luke he would already be doing it. The man has no coherent plan.
Yes, Stover used early drafts of the film, and unpacked more ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor. I think it is a good illustration and one of the best Star Wars novels, bar none.
Palpatine has nothing to fear from Luke. Luke is not so strong that he isn't subject to manipulation, which is what the Dark Side does best. It takes even the best of intentions and twists them to selfish goals. The power of suggestions will work better if Luke is in the right frame of mind, and his mindset is already being twisted by the dark.
Thank you. That clarifies it better than I could.
1) Stover made up a bunch of stuff that wasn't in any draftYes, Stover used early drafts of the film, and unpacked more ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor. I think it is a good illustration and one of the best Star Wars novels, bar none.
Palpatine has nothing to fear from Luke. Luke is not so strong that he isn't subject to manipulation, which is what the Dark Side does best. It takes even the best of intentions and twists them to selfish goals. The power of suggestions will work better if Luke is in the right frame of mind, and his mindset is already being twisted by the dark.
Thank you. That clarifies it better than I could.
2) I already responded to the guy you quoted with this-
That makes no sense. If the Emperor could just brainwash/forcefully suggest things to Luke he would already be doing it. The man has no coherent plan.
Wasn't he clouding the Jedi's ability to use the Force in ROTS? Mace Windu mentions their ability to use the Force has been disminished.
Yes, he was.
And that's the entire point. PT Palp is better written. He seduces Anakin in a much more coherent way than just "get him mad", he actually gives him incentive to pledge allegiance to him.
If OT Palp was written like PT Palp, he would already have been doing something like that is what i'm saying.
1) Lucas would have signed off on it, and concepts that were present were early drafts were included.
2). I don't agree with your conclusion. The man has a plan that is long on objectives, and short on steps. Getting Luke mad makes him susceptible to the Dark Side, much in the same way that Obi-Wan did against Maul. You don't think Palpatine couldn't manipulate Luke once he killed Vader?
1). Lucas has "signed off" on many EU books about which he then says "they are not at all what I would have done".
2). That has nothing to do with anything. Obi-Wan was never going to serve Palpatine even if he did turn to the dark side, as he had no incentive to work for the guy who indirectly killed his surrogate father. Like with Luke, Obi would kill Palp if anything.
1) Lucas kind of controls what materials are given, and guidelines given for the novel, as well as the video game. Source: a friend works at Lucas Arts during ROTS production.
Additionally, the novel made ROTS infinitely more watchable.
2). So, you don't think the Master of the Dark Side couldn't manipulate someone's fall to the Dark Side to their own ends? For all the talk of Palpatine in the PT, he suddenly sounds a passive idiot being described now.
