Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

[Romulan_spy]

Where do you get the idea that superheroes today never get political? On the contrary, a lot of current comics are making strong political statements.

Well, I don't read comics so I have no clue what they are doing. My only experience with superhero stories is through TV shows and movies. My comment is based mostly on the recent DC and Marvel movies which seem to steer away from overt political statements.

 

[DigificWriter]

Supergirl has had an overt political bent since the day it premiered, so to object to its contents NOW smacks of scrambling to find something to criticize it for.

Supergirl is not a show that is "subtle" or "nuanced" in any way (which is part of its appeal), so why should it need to be restrained in its political commentary?

 

[Christopher]

Supergirl has had an overt political bent since the day it premiered, so to object to its contents NOW smacks of scrambling to find something to criticize it for.

Indeed, that's one of the things I liked most about it -- that it wasn't afraid to be about something, to have a message, like much of the best SFTV of the past and too few SF shows today. I was afraid it would lose that activism when it went to The CW, since the other DC shows there haven't been as message-driven, but if anything, it ramped it up. And the other shows have gotten a bit more political themselves, like when Arrow tackled gun control and Legends of Tomorrow addressed slavery and racial politics.

Just to underline Supergirl's stance even more, the season finale next week is entitled "Nevertheless, She Persisted" -- a line that Agents of SHIELD also referenced in dialogue a couple of weeks ago.

 

[DigificWriter]

Just to clarify, I don't care if people object to the politics of the series; what I dislike is when said politics suddenly become a point of contention when they never were previously.

 

[Kirk Prime]

I'm actually very tolerant of the free speech of the writers. Why aren't you?

I don't think it's about tolerance of free speech here. It's not a free speech issue. It's about using a superhero show as a political forum, which is inappropriate and disrespectful to the audience. Intolerance would be telling someone who doesn't agree with this point not to watch.

As for the comics getting political, that's more of a recent thing as again, the liberal writers took over from the people that made the characters loved in the first place. It turned me off of comic books.

Well, I don't read comics so I have no clue what they are doing. My only experience with superhero stories is through TV shows and movies. My comment is based mostly on the recent DC and Marvel movies which seem to steer away from overt political statements.

And those movies for the most part are highly successful. It's very frustrating from a non-liberal viewpoint to have to constantly have your thoughts not just completely mischaracterized, but demonized as well.

Supergirl has had an overt political bent since the day it premiered, so to object to its contents NOW smacks of scrambling to find something to criticize it for.

Supergirl is not a show that is "subtle" or "nuanced" in any way (which is part of its appeal), so why should it need to be restrained in its political commentary?

Because it's a superhero show, not a commercial for the democrats.

A show about a strong female lead is NOT political. It's a show where the hero is female. I always loved the character of Supergirl, and I think she is very well represented here. A strong woman is neither liberal nor conservative.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's an alien fricking invasion.

It can't be an allegory for Trump because he's not an alien invader.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't think it's about tolerance of free speech here. It's not a free speech issue. It's about using a superhero show as a political forum, which is inappropriate and disrespectful to the audience. Intolerance would be telling someone who doesn't agree with this point not to watch.

Yeah, no.

By the way, I never told you not to watch. That's a complete misrepresentation of what I was saying. What I was saying was, if it bothers you so much, don't watch. That's friendly advice. But hey, have it your way: rage-watch it for all I care.

 

[Kirk Prime]

It's an alien fricking invasion.

It can't be an allegory for Trump because he's not an alien invader.

You would think that's right, and that's how it SHOULD be. Yet the writers found a way to take a cheap shot at Trump and his voters with Cat's speech to the world.

Let me ask you all on the left something--

do you get where I'm coming from and WHY these creative choices bother me so much? Please factor in that Supergirl is hardly alone--I get this on a LOT of TV shows.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They were taking a shot at Trump.

But you shouldn't be able to see it as a shot at Trump unless you consider America today to be under siege from an evil dictator who is going to put you in chains.

The disconnect is cartoony.

 

[Marc]

Then you have Cat being back, interrrupting a president during war time negotiation and that whole scene on the plane talking about girl power was cringeworthy. It took me out of the episode, to be honest.

That's a common trope where the rich and powerful think they have their right to demand the attention of those in political office.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I suspect that Cat does know that Kara is Supergirl and is just playing dumb. There is no way that Cat can instantly recognize James just based on seeing his eyes through the slit in his helmet and not know who Kara is.

 

[Jayson1]

You would think that's right, and that's how it SHOULD be. Yet the writers found a way to take a cheap shot at Trump and his voters with Cat's speech to the world.

Let me ask you all on the left something--

do you get where I'm coming from and WHY these creative choices bother me so much? Please factor in that Supergirl is hardly alone--I get this on a LOT of TV shows.

Why do you think a attack on Trump and his supporters is a attack on conservatives? For many, me including, Trump and the alt right is a issue that goes beyond just left/right politics. For many I think we see that the republican party has become something we disagreed with to something that has become evil. It's hard to tell a balanced story when you got people wanting to take health care from people or the aproved but not offically aproved nods to the more hardcore racists on the right. People see what as is going on as being really different from anything that has happened before in America. It's not like Bush were we might not like him but more like you can compare Trump to Hitler and it doesn't feel far fetched like it has been done in the past to other politicians?

Jason

 

[BillJ]

Without some political lean, stories are usually pretty dull. Might as well go watch paint dry.

 

[tenmei]

I don't think it's about tolerance of free speech here. It's not a free speech issue. It's about using a superhero show as a political forum, which is inappropriate and disrespectful to the audience. Intolerance would be telling someone who doesn't agree with this point not to watch.

So it's not intolerance if you say that characters can't be used as political mouth-pieces for their writers which has been happening since storytelling began.

But it is intolerance to tell someone who doesn't like the above that they shouldn't watch it (listen/read) if they don't like it? As has been happening with people who don't appreciate the stories being told since storytelling began.

The former is saying that you're not allowed to express your opinion, the latter is saying that you don't have to listen to someone else's opinion if you don't want to. I know which one I'd consider an example of intolerance. To use the phrase often misatributed to Voltaire - "I do not agree with your opinions, but I will defend to the death your right to say them ..." : this is not exemplified in the former, but leans towards the latter.

 

[Jayson1]

Without some political lean, stories are usually pretty dull. Might as well go watch paint dry.

I agree but I don't think I see it just a politic's but more like a point-of-view the character's have and you get to see how they evolve beyond that view and change. A more sophisticated show would proably start off by having some of the "Supergirl" characters be conservative at first and watch them change while having some of the liberal characters have some conservative views and basically just watch the character's instead of trying to pass judgments on them.
A comic book universe doesn't need to be that way. It can take issue's and define them in broad terms. It's part of the fantasy of those type of stories. Like I said above is my only problem is the show has gotten a little cliche by almost focusing to much on just Trump and refuge issue when there are other issue's out there that can be explored. Heck their are even other aspects of Trump that can be explored.

Jason

 

[Christopher]

I don't think it's about tolerance of free speech here. It's not a free speech issue. It's about using a superhero show as a political forum, which is inappropriate and disrespectful to the audience.

You're blatantly contradicting yourself. It absolutely is a free speech issue if you object to a fictional work's right to express speech that you don't personally agree with. Tell me: Would you have the same objection to a superhero show advancing a conservative viewpoint?

And as I said, superhero fiction has always, always been political. Even the supposedly fluffy Batman '66 did a scathing satire of the political process in "Hizzoner the Penguin"/"Dizzoner the Penguin." And a lot of its commentary is still surprisingly relevant 50 years later.

Heck, even stories in which superheroes just blandly defend the status quo are making the political statement that the status quo is all right the way it is. Like another Batman '66 episode, "Nora Clavicle and the Ladies' Crime Club," which was a profoundly sexist mockery of the whole idea of feminism and women's rights.

As for the comics getting political, that's more of a recent thing as again, the liberal writers took over from the people that made the characters loved in the first place. It turned me off of comic books.

Again, the people who originally created these characters back in the '30s and '40s were mostly from Jewish immigrant families -- people who were routinely treated the same way Muslim and Mexican immigrants are treated by many Americans today. They were outsiders themselves, victims of nationalist and religious bigotry, and they grew up in poverty. Their superhero creations thus tended to be quite activist and leftist. The post-WWII Superman radio show was so emphatically liberal and pedantically pro-social justice that it makes today's Supergirl seem moderate and understated. Marvel and DC Comics in the '70s both pushed hard to be socially relevant and progressive; Marvel broke ground with black heroes like Black Panther and the Falcon, and DC got heroes like Green Lantern and Green Arrow involved in social causes -- although the unpowered Wonder Woman of the early '70s tended somewhat more toward the right in at least some ways, taking a rather aggressive stance in a story about the Vietnam conflict and even expressing skepticism toward the feminism that the character had originally been created to advocate.

 

[BillJ]

I agree but I don't think I see it just a politic's but more like a point-of-view the character's have and you get to see how they evolve beyond that view and change. A more sophisticated show would proably start off by having some of the "Supergirl" characters be conservative at first and watch them change while having some of the liberal characters have some conservative views and basically just watch the character's instead of trying to pass judgments on them.

The characters are the writers. What the writer thinks is right will come through in the characters.

 

[Jax]

the liberal writers took over from the people that made the characters loved in the first place

So soon as dirty Liberals get their hands on something, it's less loved by the people? Let me hand you a spade to dig your hole even deeper because as Christopher has pointed out, you've contradicted yourself over your many posts and IMO you wouldn't care if the show was pushing a conservative agenda.

TV and Film for a long time now has helped push progressive ideas & thoughts for whatever particular era the country was in and Conservatives of the time have always rallied against it. The writers are well within their rights to push whatever they want and the audience can punish them or reward them but I doubt Supergirl will lose too many viewers from a network that has always courted a young and Left demographic.

 

[Jayson1]

The characters are the writers. What the writer thinks is right will come through in the characters.

What they write doesn't mean it represents their own personal views. I don't think David Chase for example is pro Mafia just because he took time to explore that stuff on "Sopranos."
I think good writer's try to see both sides of a issue and when they have a issue they disagree with they still try to understand the perspective and even try and make a convincing argument for it.
Trump is kind of hard though because other than the anti-establishment stuff that helped get him elected I do think it's almost impossible to see any non-evil argument for some of the stuff that has been going on.

Jason

 

[Jax]

Supergirl for President...

Sorted!