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Enterprise's Bottomless Pit

PicardSpeedo

Commander
Red Shirt
In Star Trek: Nemesis, Commander Riker is shown kicking a Reman down a bottomless pit on the Enterprise-E that starts on deck 29 and goes on forever. The Enterprise-E only has 26 decks. Does anyone know what the purpose of this pit is, and how it's possible that it starts three decks below the bottom of the ship?
 
I don't get this one at all. The pit isn't all that deep - we see less than a dozen decks at most. And it doesn't start "three decks below the bottom" - it starts where Riker and the Viceroy meet, which is probably in the very middle of the ship, considering Riker started on top and the Viceroy started on the very bottom.

The cutaway diagram seen in this movie and its two predecessors shows several vertical shafts in the central part of the ship. This is one of them. Which one... is not all that interesting.

Timo Saloniemi
 
In Star Trek: Nemesis, Commander Riker is shown kicking a Reman down a bottomless pit on the Enterprise-E that starts on deck 29 and goes on forever. The Enterprise-E only has 26 decks. Does anyone know what the purpose of this pit is, and how it's possible that it starts three decks below the bottom of the ship?
I'm pretty sure it leads to the aft nacelle.
 
I don't get this one at all. The pit isn't all that deep - we see less than a dozen decks at most. And it doesn't start "three decks below the bottom" - it starts where Riker and the Viceroy meet, which is probably in the very middle of the ship, considering Riker started on top and the Viceroy started on the very bottom.

Bingo. You can actually see from the doors they're on deck 9. Which is right around the top of the ship's tallest vertical turboshaft, starting directly under the saucer shuttlebay. Assuming there's more than one shaft in that position along the width of the ship, one of them could be semi-permanently shut down (hence the non-retracting yet flimsy catwalk), and boom, instant dramatic fight-location.

Now, the problem is that the only dialog is that the Viceroy boarded at Deck 29, and Worf sends security there. It's plausible that the Viceroy made it past them and Riker's team was trying to head them off, but that wasn't made explicit, leaving a space in what you could call the nitpicker's window, where there's a subtle contradiction, and anyone who catches it isn't enjoying themselves enough to make the extra mental leap to give the movie the benefit of the doubt and assume the most obvious explanation is true.
 
...anyone who catches it isn't enjoying themselves enough to make the extra mental leap to give the movie the benefit of the doubt...
Considering how many people caught it, I'd say nobody was enjoying themselves while watching Nemesis. :evil:

The lack of clarity over where the Viceroy's party boarded vs. where they met up with Riker & Worf's security team is the least of this film's sins.
 
Considering how many people caught it, I'd say nobody was enjoying themselves while watching Nemesis. :evil:

The lack of clarity over where the Viceroy's party boarded vs. where they met up with Riker & Worf's security team is the least of this film's sins.
Bingo!
 
Bingo. You can actually see from the doors they're on deck 9.

Which is probably what Worf's line was supposed to reflect originally, until somebody failed to read the memo. But we don't know how deep into the ship the Reman transporters would penetrate through that bottom opening in the shields.

Which is right around the top of the ship's tallest vertical turboshaft, starting directly under the saucer shuttlebay. Assuming there's more than one shaft in that position along the width of the ship, one of them could be semi-permanently shut down (hence the non-retracting yet flimsy catwalk), and boom, instant dramatic fight-location.

Hmm. One might assume a turboshaft to have side openings, supposedly crucial to its intended function. But ST5:TFF featured none, either...

Might be simply for ventilation. Air needs space in order to move efficiently. And the shaft did feature lots of billowing smoke that would definitely need to be moved somewhere...

Now, the problem is that the only dialog is that the Viceroy boarded at Deck 29, and Worf sends security there. It's plausible that the Viceroy made it past them and Riker's team was trying to head them off, but that wasn't made explicit, leaving a space in what you could call the nitpicker's window, where there's a subtle contradiction, and anyone who catches it isn't enjoying themselves enough to make the extra mental leap to give the movie the benefit of the doubt and assume the most obvious explanation is true.

To crowbar the shards off the edges of the already broken window, let's study this a bit more. Theoretically, Riker should enjoy access to turbolifts while the Viceroy should not. In practice, though, the latter party could hack the systems to their benefit, gaining access while denying it from the former - and then there'd be a counterreaction.

Think "Let That Be Your Last Oddly Edited Chase Through the Sets" if you can suppress your gag reflex: it's perfectly logical for Bele and Lokai to first leave the bridge via turbolift and then have to resort to running, because they are explicitly capable of controlling the ship's machinery and implicitly capable of making the turbolift car an unviable getaway vehicle.

Here it should make sense for the Viceroy to struggle upwards by whatever means necessary, ultimately having to abandon turbolifts (and perhaps three-fourths of his boarding party, too) and to press forth on foot. Riker would be rushing to meet him, but having to guess where: even if he enjoyed constant access to turbolifts, he'd have to swing up and down, port and starboard like a soccer goalie until finally cornering the Viceroy in a single corridor (while three-fourths of his forces might be in other locations, having guessed wrong).

Alternately, Worf sent a security detail to secure Deck 29 while himself establishing a last stand at Deck 9, the lowest deck where he could be certain to block alternate access routes...

This fun piece of treknology in action is less a sin IMHO than it is a price to be paid for the sins of the movie: it really should raise no antennae at all if part of a better movie.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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Hmm. One might assume a turboshaft to have side openings, supposedly crucial to its intended function. But ST5:TFF featured none, either...

One might suggest the one in TFF had sealed over openings for safety.....

I'm wondering how much of the timing discrepancy could be accounted for by Riker being much physically slower, being a rather overweight human who had to take time to link up with the security team, whereas the Viceroy is a much fitter, leaner specimen, not to mention being vulcanoid, whose troops were already with him at the point of entry.
 
As long as the intruder control sensors and systems of the E-E are suitably battle-damaged, the advantage is to the intruder here - the Remans can choose any (or several) of a multitude of routes towards the Bridge. The defenders thus have to split their forces and perhaps patrol the corridors in numerous small posses (because splitting further to place a guard at every possible junction would result in posses just 0.47 people strong).

And the heroes cannot afford to let the invaders get all the way up to Deck 1 even if this would eliminate the variables, because this would also eliminate much of the starship the heroes need to conduct the battle... A chance meeting on Deck 9 thus doesn't sound all that out of place.

Once again, remarkably, nobody is running. Here's something the overcaffeinated nuMovies get right at least - if you are in a hurry that ultimately ends with the kaboom timer showing 0:07, the seconds you win by taking longer and more bouncing steps will help.

Timo Saloniemi
 
All these excuses for such a crummy sequence. ;)

The thing is most action sequences make little sense and hold little truck with feasability when broken down. As Timo pointed out had the film been considered more engaging and worthwhile less attention would be paid to shortcomings like this.
 
On the other hand, most of what makes fictional universes interesting comes from the unintended. The imaginations of the writers only carry so far - the fun begins when their visions clash and the sparks fly.

Most of what we "know" of how phasers "should" work comes from unintentional things, ill planned out visuals, limitations of VFX tech, editing errors, actors fumbling their props. And some of that has actually become part of the Trek universe in that current and future VFX artists and directors treat the guns in a certain way never actually intentionally established by their supposed "creators".

This boarding action adds to the lore of boarding action in Trek, just like the ramming adds a datapoint to a Trek fringe phenomenon. There probably was no real cross-comparing or planning involved (despite Logan being a continuity-minded fan), meaning the data actually adds to our knowledge rather than just being a stale repetition of the known...

Timo Saloniemi
 
You know, if we didn't have all those technical manuals and cutaway diagrams (which are cooked up by the art department with next to no input from the people who write the stories, hence Voyager having one warp core and one computer core despite the MSD showing two of each), nobody would think twice about the Enterprise having a bottomless pit.

I miss that sense of mystery in the inner workings of Trek ships. It's what the reboot brought back, but many freaked because -like this bottomless pit in Nemesis - gigantic engine rooms and coolant pipes didn't match the way old technical diagrams imagined the Enterprise's lower decks.
 
And that was an error IMHO because dialogue certainly specified that the humble little sets of TOS were to represent a "maze" of machinery where Ben Finney or Evil Kirk could build a condo complete with a pool and a minigolf course and Security would never notice.

I always sorta imagined a brewery-like facility on the real lower decks...

Timo Saloniemi
 
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