Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.

[Trekkin]

Voyager did get stuff done by elbow greese-three shifts a week and lots of trading with friendly aliens for raw materials and spare parts.

Yes. I said that's what was meant to be happening. The issue was with the depiction.

People took issue with DS9 managing to repair an entire pylon with a gap between episodes and a handwave. And DS9 was in Fed space, fully crewed, during a relatively stable period, with a friendly planet next door.

Are you shocked that people also don't like it when the much more endangered and fragile Voyager has that same handwave happen all the time?

 

[fireproof78]

As for not taking chances is a big problem once again we are dealing with something that could be subjective, for those for whom VOY was their first Trek show it might appear new and fresh for those that had been fas of ST through TOS, TNG and into DSN what VOY might be doing might be seen as being stale and old and they want Trek to take that Big chance. And some might srgue the inital premise was taking a big chance.

The initial premise is what interested me, with all the magazines I read at the time. But, it didn't feel like it bore out well, and it didn't keep my interest past the third episode. I've managed to revisit it some what and enjoy episodes here and there, but I think there are aspects that could have been improved.

 

[Prax]

Are you shocked that people also don't like it when the much more endangered and fragile Voyager has that same handwave happen all the time?

This again? I think we've established(in the last iteration of this temporal causality loop we're caught in)that this happened about as many times as you could count on one hand that is missing 4 fingers, and was still not as bad as the pylon thing.

BTW, It was I who mentioned Upper Pylon 3, a section of a space station that is larger than Voyager itself, made from irreplaceable parts, 50 light years from earth. And it was just to point out the legendary status of some of these "grievances."

 

[Voth commando1]

Yes. I said that's what was meant to be happening. The issue was with the depiction.

People took issue with DS9 managing to repair an entire pylon with a gap between episodes and a handwave. And DS9 was in Fed space, fully crewed, during a relatively stable period, with a friendly planet next door.

Are you shocked that people also don't like it when the much more endangered and fragile Voyager has that same handwave happen all the time?

Um you do understand the concept of off-screen or page don't you? Imagination does that ring any bells?

It's mentioned-"the engineers are working overtime this week" or "those aliens replenished are dilithium back there." Name drops, and explicit yet in passing references.

 

[DS9forever]

The Cardassians were near-allies of the Federation at the time and would have helped with repairs.

 

[Trekkin]

This again? I think we've established(in the last iteration of this temporal causality loop we're caught in)that this happened about as many times as you could count on one hand that is missing 4 fingers, and was still not as bad as the pylon thing.

BTW, It was I who mentioned Upper Pylon 3, a section of a space station that is larger than Voyager itself, made from irreplaceable parts, 50 light years from earth. And it was just to point out the legendary status of some of these "grievances."

What the hell are you talking about? Have we even interacted before?

Um you do understand the concept of off-screen or page don't you? Imagination does that ring any bells?

It's mentioned-"the engineers are working overtime this week" or "those aliens replenished are dilithium back there." Name drops, and explicit yet in passing references.

Why, thank you for explaining that story telling device that I've already pointed out that Star Trek uses. Twice.

Don't know where the conversation would be without you.

 

[fireproof78]

Um you do understand the concept of off-screen or page don't you? Imagination does that ring any bells?

It's mentioned-"the engineers are working overtime this week" or "those aliens replenished are dilithium back there." Name drops, and explicit yet in passing references.

So, we do the writers' job then? Got it, just wanted to be clear.

 

[Prax]

What the hell are you talking about? Have we even interacted before?



Why, thank you for explaining that story telling device that I've already pointed out that Star Trek uses. Twice.

Don't know where the conversation would be without you.

I'm replying to your comment. That Voyager had "Handwave fixes all the time" It's not true. It's Bologna. You brought up the DS9 thing where they lost an entire pylon, and it was back a week later, and never mentioned.

 

[Prax]

So, we do the writers' job then? Got it, just wanted to be clear.

Clearly the writers are doing their job of they're adding these types of references into the script. Or are we going to move the golden goal post another ten yards back?

 

[Voth commando1]

Why not reference repairs and trading in passing? Why spend whole episodes showing Janeway getting spare parts from DQ aliens of the week? Just say we traded goods and voila we were on are way.

 

[fireproof78]

Clearly the writers are doing their job of they're adding these types of references into the script. Or are we going to move the golden goal post another ten yards back?

It was mentioned twice. Deadlock, where a hole was blown in it, and the Bridge trashed, is not mentioned in the next episode.

This is a pet peeve of mine, and I might be alone in it, but there it is. And, before you refute me, I'll save you the trouble and quote an article I read while researching episodes:

Shut up and enjoy the damn show.

Why not reference repairs and trading in passing? Why spend whole episodes showing Janeway getting spare parts from DQ aliens of the week? Just say we traded goods and voila we were on are way.

I would watch that episode, probably multiple times.

Again, I'm an outlier, so I'll just shut up now

 

[Prax]

It was mentioned twice. Deadlock, where a hole was blown in it, and the Bridge trashed, is not mentioned in the next episode.

This is a pet peeve of mine, and I might be alone in it, but there it is. And, before you refute me, I'll save you the trouble and quote an article I read while researching episodes:



I would watch that episode, probably multiple times.

Again, I'm an outlier, so I'll just shut up now

bbbut the article gives more than two examples. And there's more that I can think of.

 

[fireproof78]

bbbut the article gives more than two examples. And there's more that I can think of.

As I said, I'm taking the article's advice.
Cheers!

 

[Anwar]

Would have satisfied me.

Considering how they're all considered substandard, I doubt the audience would've cared much.

Now, if they'd managed to transplant a Dominion Armada into the Delta Quadrant and have them get blown up by a Squadron of Cubes, critically damaging all the Cubes to the extent that Voyager could easily destroy them all, it might be different. DS9 can do no wrong after all.

Yes, I can. It was consequences and interesting storytelling.

And if Hugh and his renegade Borg showed up in Voyager and THEY were the ones behind the Unimatrix Zero Rebellion, would that have made the story better? Or would Voyager just be condemned once again?

The Defiant should have been more beat up after the fight. It shouldn't have been instantly repaired.

And what about other stuff, like DS9 getting that massive Pylon fixed between episodes?

So, perhaps instead of citing places were other shows did things, why not cite areas were Star Trek entertained you?

I'd like to, but the Niners have been rubbing their "superiority" in the faces of anyone who enjoys TNG or VOY for nearly 20 years now.

 

[Voth commando1]

Trekkers can be so toxic and vicious sometimes, its just demoralizing

 

[fireproof78]

Considering how they're all considered substandard, I doubt the audience would've cared much.

"The Audience" is not a faceless mass.

Now, if they'd managed to transplant a Dominion Armada into the Delta Quadrant and have them get blown up by a Squadron of Cubes, critically damaging all the Cubes to the extent that Voyager could easily destroy them all, it might be different. DS9 can do no wrong after all.

"Profit and Lace" among other episodes, would beg to differ...strongly.

And if Hugh and his renegade Borg showed up in Voyager and THEY were the ones behind the Unimatrix Zero Rebellion, would that have made the story better? Or would Voyager just be condemned once again?

I think that would have been impressive.

And what about other stuff, like DS9 getting that massive Pylon fixed between episodes?

Stupid, but minor and not a part of the premise.
I don't care if DS9 did it. VOY was trying to be different.

I'd like to, but the Niners have been rubbing their "superiority" in the faces of anyone who enjoys TNG or VOY for nearly 20 years now.

Where!??? Seriously, who are these "people" that are ruining Star Trek!? I did a quick Google search about Voyager and was told to "shut up and enjoy the damn show" on at least 5 different sites, blogs, reviews and the like. I have friends and family who VOY is their favorite Star Trek show...period.

I may not like all of VOY but in the wide world of sports I don't hate it or consider myself superior to anyone. Like what you like!

 

[Nightdiamond]

It's a common impression that Voyager ruined the Borg, right or wrong, fair or unfair, it does seem to be a widespread view. Maybe it's totally unfair. It just seems to be the impression some fans get.

Perhaps it really started with Lore and the Borg, certain things in First contact, and just filtered out into Voyager. Either the Borg seem less menacing, interesting, mysterious--that seems to be the feeling.


My impression was that there could have been more ways to present the Borg than how they did if they wanted to keep the fascination going. The Borg daydreaming? Borg children? Just didn't work for me.

How about a look into how the Borg came into existence, like an alien culture's experiment with A.I and perfection that went totally wrong? If not that, I'm open to seeing something new, creative.

How about just showing the damage the Borg has done in a region of the Delta quadrant in real, gritty details? And how they knew they had to get the hell out of there A.S.A.P. No talk of Nano probes, queens, technobabble miracle solutions, ect. just an urgent need to get out of that region after seeing the carnage, fear and destruction they caused.


One note--I noticed Voyager's message content is beating out some of the other forums on here. Maybe because of it now airing on BBC, but at least it's suggesting it's pretty popular.

 

[Trekkin]

I'm replying to your comment. That Voyager had "Handwave fixes all the time" It's not true. It's Bologna. You brought up the DS9 thing where they lost an entire pylon, and it was back a week later, and never mentioned.

You mean the pylon repair that I criticised as being a bullshit handwave? How the flying fuck is that being unfair? And I repeat: what's all that bullshit about 'going through this again?'

And lately, I'm reading the word 'bologna' way too much in this forum. It's giving me flashbacks to being in grade school. I didn't like grade school.

"
I may not like all of VOY but in the wide world of sports I don't hate it or consider myself superior to anyone. Like what you like!

I like all the Star Treks, to an extent. *glares at TMP and INS* A very, very, generous, extent.

I think that means I fail at being a Trekkie. It haunts me every day. There are no smileys sad enough to convey my woe.

One note--I noticed Voyager's message content is beating out some of the other forums on here. Maybe because of it now airing on BBC, but at least it's suggesting it's pretty popular.

Plus, we're bickering.

It's why the politics forums are so busy. And everyone knows that series is the worst by far.

 

[Sophie74656]

It was mentioned twice. Deadlock, where a hole was blown in it, and the Bridge trashed, is not mentioned in the next episode.

This is a pet peeve of mine, and I might be alone in it, but there it is. And, before you refute me, I'll save you the trouble and quote an article I read while researching episodes:



I would watch that episode, probably multiple times.

Again, I'm an outlier, so I'll just shut up now

At the end of Deadlock they talk about how they've been repairing. It's flat out said in the episode that they're making repairs

 

[fireproof78]

At the end of Deadlock they talk about how they've been repairing. It's flat out said in the episode that they're making repairs

I stand corrected. I rewatched it to be certain.

As I said, I am looking at following an article's advice of shutting up and enjoying the damn show.