Thin Ice (Grade & Discussion Thread)
- Thread starter TommyR01D
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I'm sort of disappointed they didn't save this title for an Ice Warrior episode.
Well, Big Finish did for audio play that produced the unfilmed series 27 story Ice Time, which featured the Ice Warriors.
You seem to have forgotten the poll this week.
I was planning to wait for the episode to air so I could find some topical things to put as the poll options.
For The Pilot I rather wish I'd done degree classifications.
That was good - I'm sold on Bill now, after she did that Sarah Jane-ish sticking her tongue out at him. Nice speech he gave, much more natural than the usual Moffat monologue (good though those are). And Lesley agrees he's being me again in this episode, in various ways. (notably the "diplomacy, charm etc" before decking the guy...)
"I'm two thousand years old and I've never had the time for the luxury of outrage."
I loved this episode. Good historical setting, and even though it has alien influences (maybe, as The Doctor points out), it's not overwhelming so. The Doctor's reference that he's been to Frost Fairs "a few times" is probably a reference to "A Good Man Goes to War," but I'm taking it as also a reference to Big Finish's Frostfire (with The First Doctor, Steven and Vicki). Bill's glee at being an actual Frost Fair is infectious and I don't blame her: I would love to go to one. Also good to see The Twelfth Doctor in a top hat.
The rapport between Bill and The Twelfth Doctor continues to grow and I'm really loving the pairing. The argument about death was particularly well handled without slipping into ham-fisted speechifying, and I agree with Longmagpie that it felt more natural than the usual Moffat fare. I think that's a result from a combination of Sarah Dollard's writing and Peter Capaldi's performance.
A few minor complaints: The logistics behind the diving suits are quietly waved off, such as where did they come from, how did their oxygen get pumped down to them (if Nardole had traveled with them, he could've been grumbly doing that task), and just how long are the oxygen tubes? Not a big deal but those issues stood out to me. I've also noticed this season's trend to flashback to a moment earlier in the episode as a reminder to the viewer. It's a minor annoyance but I wish the show would trust the viewer to recall the moments its reflecting upon.
One thing that surprised me about the episode: The depiction of a child's death. We don't see the actual death, but seeing the child being sucked into the ice can be rather shocking for some people. Mary Whitehouse must be spinning in her grave.
Did anyone else count the knocking from the inside of The Vault? I was surprised it wasn't actually four times.
I loved this episode. Good historical setting, and even though it has alien influences (maybe, as The Doctor points out), it's not overwhelming so. The Doctor's reference that he's been to Frost Fairs "a few times" is probably a reference to "A Good Man Goes to War," but I'm taking it as also a reference to Big Finish's Frostfire (with The First Doctor, Steven and Vicki). Bill's glee at being an actual Frost Fair is infectious and I don't blame her: I would love to go to one. Also good to see The Twelfth Doctor in a top hat.
The rapport between Bill and The Twelfth Doctor continues to grow and I'm really loving the pairing. The argument about death was particularly well handled without slipping into ham-fisted speechifying, and I agree with Longmagpie that it felt more natural than the usual Moffat fare. I think that's a result from a combination of Sarah Dollard's writing and Peter Capaldi's performance.
A few minor complaints: The logistics behind the diving suits are quietly waved off, such as where did they come from, how did their oxygen get pumped down to them (if Nardole had traveled with them, he could've been grumbly doing that task), and just how long are the oxygen tubes? Not a big deal but those issues stood out to me. I've also noticed this season's trend to flashback to a moment earlier in the episode as a reminder to the viewer. It's a minor annoyance but I wish the show would trust the viewer to recall the moments its reflecting upon.
One thing that surprised me about the episode: The depiction of a child's death. We don't see the actual death, but seeing the child being sucked into the ice can be rather shocking for some people. Mary Whitehouse must be spinning in her grave.
Did anyone else count the knocking from the inside of The Vault? I was surprised it wasn't actually four times.
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Quite frankly I found this week boring. The only thing it really had going for it was the Doctor and Bill's interaction. The episode felt politically correct to forced degrees as well.
Very good episode, though i agree with @Emh about the diving suits. Also it was a little close to The Beast Below in places. Kudos for them addressing child deaths and slavery (though the better stuff was the subtler stuff)
Capaldi and Mackie are so great together. He's having so much fun and i like that there's still some of the hard edge from S8.
Is Pete anyone elses favourite companion.
Capaldi and Mackie are so great together. He's having so much fun and i like that there's still some of the hard edge from S8.
Is Pete anyone elses favourite companion.
Eh, I found him rather forgettable.Is Pete anyone elses favourite companion.
Leave me alone, you know someone was going to say that.
A pretty good episode, though not really all that special. As already mentioned, it was a bit like The Beast Below, and once the explosives and the sonic screwdriver's ability to control the fish was established, it was easy to work out how things were going to turn out. I do like they made the villain an evil human rather than going the route of an alien living on Earth with an evil agenda. Someone's been paying attention to the complaints about inserting aliens or monsters into stories that don't need them. Granted, there was a monster here, but to be fair, this would have been difficult to do without one.
And damn, the Doctor, Bill and Nardole do make quite the team. I could easily enjoy two seasons at least of them, even with it just being the Doctor and Bill who go on adventures and Nardole stays home and nags. Ah well, at least we are getting one season of this great TARDIS Team.
And damn, the Doctor, Bill and Nardole do make quite the team. I could easily enjoy two seasons at least of them, even with it just being the Doctor and Bill who go on adventures and Nardole stays home and nags. Ah well, at least we are getting one season of this great TARDIS Team.
Kind of weird the Doctor's reaction to the racist after his hard-hearted retrieval of the sonic screwdriver in the same episode. I appreciate the sentiment but that felt kind of forced to me.
That said, the Doctor and Bill continue to work well together. I liked how Bill's step onto old London snow seemed to call back to Rose's step way back in The Unquiet Dead.
I'm not quite sure how the whole fish thing worked. Like how long had it been captured, what happens in the summer, couldn't they just feed it, etc. Maybe I need to see it again, it was fine while watching but thinking afterwards I wasn't so sure.
That said, the Doctor and Bill continue to work well together. I liked how Bill's step onto old London snow seemed to call back to Rose's step way back in The Unquiet Dead.
I'm not quite sure how the whole fish thing worked. Like how long had it been captured, what happens in the summer, couldn't they just feed it, etc. Maybe I need to see it again, it was fine while watching but thinking afterwards I wasn't so sure.
I went with "treading water". Not a great episode, not a bad episode. Bill was weaker this episode, though. Her getting all angry at the Doctor because a kid died then trying to corner him with the "how many people have you killed" question really made me dislike her for a bit. Who is she to act all outraged at the 2000 old alien having to have killed? I mean, killing isn't good, but at his age and with what he does it was going to happen, but she wouldn't even listen to the fact that sometimes death and killing is unavoidable.
Besides that, the alien was boring, the human bad guy sucked, the kid characters were mediocre (which means they were a thousand times better then any of the kids in Series 7B or Series 8, but that's not a high bar and they still weren't good) and the episode felt way too standard. This is also the first time I disliked Nardole. He was such a whiner, I just wanted him to shut the hell up and go away. The show doesn't need some idiot complaining about The Doctor having adventures.
As for the good stuff, I liked the setting. A frozen river fair is definitely an interesting place. The story was also not the worst, just a bit too standard and a bit boring. Next week's episode looks like it could go either way, NuWho and horror stories could use a bit of a break honestly. Still, hopefully it will be a well done episode and even if I'm a bit worn out by NuWho doing horror if its good that will make up for a bit of the horror fatigue NuWho has with me.
So, overall a watchable episode but not much more than that and easily the weakest episode this series. Still, if this is the worst the Series 10 gets it will be a great season.
Besides that, the alien was boring, the human bad guy sucked, the kid characters were mediocre (which means they were a thousand times better then any of the kids in Series 7B or Series 8, but that's not a high bar and they still weren't good) and the episode felt way too standard. This is also the first time I disliked Nardole. He was such a whiner, I just wanted him to shut the hell up and go away. The show doesn't need some idiot complaining about The Doctor having adventures.
As for the good stuff, I liked the setting. A frozen river fair is definitely an interesting place. The story was also not the worst, just a bit too standard and a bit boring. Next week's episode looks like it could go either way, NuWho and horror stories could use a bit of a break honestly. Still, hopefully it will be a well done episode and even if I'm a bit worn out by NuWho doing horror if its good that will make up for a bit of the horror fatigue NuWho has with me.
So, overall a watchable episode but not much more than that and easily the weakest episode this series. Still, if this is the worst the Series 10 gets it will be a great season.
I thought Danny Pink already left the show?
To be fair, Nardole could never be as annoying as Danny. But, yeah, we definitely don't need another character like that, especially one who I've liked so far like nardole.
- To call Sutcliffe a strawman would be to oversell him. He isn't even a cardboard cut-out.
- I was expecting The Shakespeare Code, but got The Beast Below instead.
- Were all of Nardole's scenes for this series filmed in one go?
- The children weren't great, but they're still way better than the children of Series 8, 7 and 6.
So, a good episode in itself, for sure. Solid acting, loved the chemistry between Capaldi and Pearl. As a character, Bill is a really growing on me.
However, as interesting as the plot was, half way during my girlfriend said "This is exactly like The Beast Below". And there were quite some similarities. So, as much as I love the entire vibe of this season so far, and it feeling a lot more like seasons 2 and 3, let's hope it doesn't go to far and have this season keep enough of its own identity
However, as interesting as the plot was, half way during my girlfriend said "This is exactly like The Beast Below". And there were quite some similarities. So, as much as I love the entire vibe of this season so far, and it feeling a lot more like seasons 2 and 3, let's hope it doesn't go to far and have this season keep enough of its own identity
I am surprised that the Doctor did not make a quick reference to the Time War. He could have easily said "I used to be a soldier a long time ago". That answer would have been easy for Bill to understand since she knows that soldiers kill during war.
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