Starfleet - war criminals? (Sisko and Starfleet Command)

[Prax]

How I hate this line of argument.

Roddenberry was not a visionary or some enlightend individual.

He was a typical money hungry hollywood writer that hit on one good idea.
And even that idea he nearly ruined with tge first two seasons of TNG.

I think we can give him a little more credit than that.At least, if we like Star Trek, we can.

Without him, we'd have no Trek movies.
We'd also have no TNG, DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise.

He was still active in TNG throughout season 4(Although I've heard that even scripts he wouldn't approve, Berman would film and air anyway) and died during production of season 5. It seems the consensus is that Season 3 & 4 was where the show peaked.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

We'd also have no TNG, DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise.

Perhaps, perhaps not. The genesis of DS9 was Brandon Tartikoff, who wanted a show about a son and father in space, based on his love of The Rifleman. He tasked Berman with developing it, but he was indifferent to whether it would be a Star Trek show or not.

 

[fireproof78]

I think we can give him a little more credit than that.At least, if we like Star Trek, we can.

Without him, we'd have no Trek movies.
We'd also have no TNG, DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise.

He was still active in TNG throughout season 4(Although I've heard that even scripts he wouldn't approve, Berman would film and air anyway) and died during production of season 5. It seems the consensus is that Season 3 & 4 was where the show peaked.

A couple of points of note, not to be nitpicky.

I give credit to GR for the idea of Star Trek and seeing it through. But, when he did not think that TOS would make money, he drafted new pilots and was prepared to move on. I credit him for be willing to try to bring Trek to the big screen, despite all the headaches, but I also credit the studio for being willing to spend so much on money on that film, and to allow it to continue.

The rest of the TOS films I would give more credit to Harve Bennett. DS9, VOY and ENT I would credit Berman. The level of GR's involvement in early TNG began to fall off and his lawyer became more involved. There were some stories that GR would initially approve, and then his lawyer would change his mind.

Did GR have great ideas? Certainly, but he had some bad ones too.

 

[Prax]

Right. I'm saying if there was no Motion Picture, there'd have been no Star Trek II, III, and so on. And if there was no TNG, nor would there have been a DS9, VOY, etc.

 

[Crazyewok]

I think we can give him a little more credit than that.At least, if we like Star Trek, we can.

Without him, we'd have no Trek movies.
We'd also have no TNG, DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise.

He was still active in TNG throughout season 4(Although I've heard that even scripts he wouldn't approve, Berman would film and air anyway) and died during production of season 5. It seems the consensus is that Season 3 & 4 was where the show peaked.

Sure he should be thanked for creating trek but that doesnt mean he should be worshiped as a visionary or his word taken as gosbal on everything.

 

[velour]

Might be able to exchange "money" for "sex" in that sentence.

Maybe Gene's lifestyle was the inspiration for the horny Bashir character.

 

[fireproof78]

Right. I'm saying if there was no Motion Picture, there'd have been no Star Trek II, III, and so on. And if there was no TNG, nor would there have been a DS9, VOY, etc.

Perhaps not in the same iteration, but once CBS had controlling rights to "Star Trek" (can't remember when that happen and don't have my Trek biographies handy) then there would have been something.

He deserves credit just credit were credit is due, and that includes the number of production staffers who came up with different ideas and concepts and pushed it forward.

 

[Prax]

Like 2014?

 

[Tenacity]

Right. I'm saying if there was no Motion Picture ...

Credit where credits due.

George Lucas and Star Wars, without which Paramount would never have given the monetary green light for TMP.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Credit where credits due.

George Lucas and Star Wars, without which Paramount would never have given the monetary green light for TMP.

Totally agree with you, but I'm also gonna ask if Space: 1999 needs to be in there? A rebooted Star Trek had been planned throughout the 70s, Star Wars just showed a feature film was viable.

And did you see the uniforms???

 

[Qonundrum]

You're comparing raids that were planned up and down the chain of command, authorized by numerous sources, etc... to ONE random captain deciding it would be cool to make a planet uninhabitable.

If anything, this was just really, really bad writing.

Habitable planets are one thing, but in the middle of Maquis territory, and what Eddington had already done to Cardassian planets (among other big nasty things to a lot of others), it was not Sisko trying to be "cool" but to beat Eddington the only means available. Sisko made an unpleasant decision but to not stop Eddington would have been far worse. Eddington was a traitor.

 

[Qonundrum]

Credit where credits due.

George Lucas and Star Wars, without which Paramount would never have given the monetary green light for TMP.

Wasn't Paramount working on a Phase II TV show but then turned it into TMP once they saw how great Star Wars was?