Starstalker

[Darkwing]

A long time ago, before I ever saw SOTSF, Trek magazine ran an article on Kirk's early career, by Leslie Thompson. The only really interesting part of it was this:

Kirk received his promised command: a brand new ship, an experimental model Starstalker. The object of the ship was to act as a quick-moving and virtually untraceable weapon, much like the submarines of Earth's past.Starstalker was one of three models being tested for this type of work.

From the article, this was six years before he took command of the Enterprise, and he had it for two years.
This sounds rather like a Perimeter Action design to me, and late 2250s - early 2260s would be a good timeframe for experimentation on the evolution of the Kiaga and Agilis classes.

The ship was virtually a flying phaser, with speed and firepower comparable to a full-size starship.

he was ably assisted by a no-nonsense, hard-headed chief engineer named Montgomery Scott, who had helped to design Starstalker.

Not so fond of this tidbit. Does the Federation ever achieve anything without this guy?

After two years of experimentation, the Starstalker experiment was shelved, and Kirk was assigned to another ship.

Now, I don't see a stint on a PA-X as a really important part of Kirk's career, or fitting very well at all. But the idea of the ship itself was cool, and when I saw the SOTSF:Akyazi class PAs, I thought it a good idea, and actually, the only decent part of the article.

So, what do you think Starstalker should look like and what should it's capabilities be? Or the other two unnamed models being tested at the time? I have also wondered if this article is what inspired Starship Prototype to come up with their Starstalker, which is more of a battlecruiser and less of a hunter-killer. Also, IIRC, supposedly designed by Scotty...

 

[Ithekro]

I liked the more combat cruiser take from Starship Prototype (the represented version seems to be a refit with the "megapahers" being added to the existing ships). A ship designed to provide a heavier torpedo punch in response to the USS Enterprise's phaser/engine redesign issue of the 2270s. After having worked on the refit of Enterprise, it would make some sense that Mr. Scott would have at least some conceptual designs or ideas to put into a new ship of similar size to correct problems that couldn't be addressed within the scope of the Enterprise refit. USS Starstalker being the result.

 

[Darkwing]

I preferred the earlier version, and would like to see some sort of transition between Kiaga / Agilis and Akyazi in TOS terms. Considering the eras involved, the name matters little. The PA-X from ~ 2258 - 2262 not being built frees the name for the very different bulky combatant from the 2280s - 2290s.
Yes, Scotty's involvement in the E refit ameliorates the overuse in having him involved in the cruiser design, whereas in the PA design, I think it's just trying too hard for in-universe connections.

 

[Timo]

The PA-X from ~ 2258 - 2262 not being built frees the name for the very different bulky combatant from the 2280s - 2290s.

On the other hand, the Ships of the Star Fleet registries don't exactly need freeing as such. Todd there goes by the practice of giving the numbers a prefix denoting the "mission class" of the ship, not NCC. While in practice, "CH-1701" reads out as NCC-1701, there is no need to assume that "PA-1010" is NCC-1010. Could be NPA-1010 just as well.

And Project Starstalker might culminate in the building of an inaugural vessel named USS Hercules for all we care.

...Is there any canon indication that Montgomery Scott ever "designed" anything at all? In "Relics", he claims he wrote the regulation on impulse engine tank pressure specs, but even that may be a flat-out lie.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unicron]

Canonically speaking, that's a good question. I can't recall any such references myself, in terms of him being a designer or consultant on a specific starship class. He does make reference in TSFS to wanting to oversee the envisioned refit of Enterprise, naturally, but that's within his normal role as chief engineer.

I myself have always tended to favor the batch system or mission class idea for registries, where you might get a block of sequential registries within the class and some might theoretically carry over from older classes (as in the SOTSF frigate designs) but some might change for purposes of the new class (FASA did this with their Reliant type vessels, as the ones converted from Anton cruisers retained their 18xx registries and new builds got a different registry for the Reliant design specifically).

 

[Darkwing]

On the other hand, the Ships of the Star Fleet registries don't exactly need freeing as such. Todd there goes by the practice of giving the numbers a prefix denoting the "mission class" of the ship, not NCC. While in practice, "CH-1701" reads out as NCC-1701, there is no need to assume that "PA-1010" is NCC-1010. Could be NPA-1010 just as well.

Name, not registry. So even if the psuedo-PA in the article was built in the late 2250s to early 2260s as an experiment, and never in active commission after the experiment, then the ship-name used for it would still be able to be used by the decades later battlecruiser type. No hull number was ever mentioned in the article I referenced, so there's no reason to think the later one reused the same number, only the name and the common thread of Scotty's involvement in the design.

And Project Starstalker might culminate in the building of an inaugural vessel named USS Hercules for all we care.

...Is there any canon indication that Montgomery Scott ever "designed" anything at all? In "Relics", he claims he wrote the regulation on impulse engine tank pressure specs, but even that may be a flat-out lie.

Timo Saloniemi

Canon? Neither Trek Magazine nor Starship Prototype have any bearing on canon. But in the article, Starstalker was the name of the ship, not the project. There were three variants, only the Starstalker name or described at any level of detail at all, and the project never named either.

 

[Darkwing]

I myself have always tended to favor the batch system or mission class idea for registries, where you might get a block of sequential registries within the class and some might theoretically carry over from older classes (as in the SOTSF frigate designs) but some might change for purposes of the new class (FASA did this with their Reliant type vessels, as the ones converted from Anton cruisers retained their 18xx registries and new builds got a different registry for the Reliant design specifically).

I go along with that largely, but the name is not the registry. And I very much dislike the trope that's built up about carrying over the registry with the name. Kirk should have gotten something other than a new "Enterprise" like Yorktown, Victory, etc., or at best a newly-rechristened "USS Enterprise, NCC-1849". Picard was originally supposed to have a ship with some other name, but due to 1701-A, it was decided to give him 1701-D. He should have had the Galaxy instead, IMO, or at least an Enterprise with a 5-digit hull number with no relationship to Kirk's.

 

[Timo]

Then again, while Picard is not a "special" Captain in-universe, he is the CO of the Federation Flagship. And the Federation might have good reasons for naming its flagship the Enterprise, along with perpetuating the registry silliness started with the -A.

Essentially, the "realistic randomness" comes from assigning Jean-Luc Picard to command the ship, rather than Shaun Geoffrey Kirk...

But in the article, Starstalker was the name of the ship, not the project.

Ah, that's a bit of a problem for that continuity, then. Although I trust projects like that would involve manufacturer-chosen placeholder names rather than Starfleet-assigned ones until the actual commissioning of the pathfinding vessel in question.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Darkwing]

Yeah, basically, I wanted to pick the community brains and see what people though this ship might look like and be designed for, based on the little bit the article described.
It came across to me very like the SOTSF Perimeter Action ship idea, but that's not the only possibility. It obviously didn't see full production, but was it used to try out ideas that were used in other classes? And what size and shape?

 

[Timo]

I wonder mostly about the stealth aspect. Optical invisibility is supposed to be new to our heroes when Kirk had command of the TOS ship, so this would have to be something different. And preferably inferior, hopefully enjoyably so. I'm reminded of all the adorable 20th century attempts at aircraft stealth before the current wave: transparent aircraft, low-rev propellers, coloring of contrails...

The Starstalker could be what aridas' Kiaga supposedly was not, while looking like the Kiaga nevertheless, with the unusual nacelle shape indicating exotic engines, the fancy shapes indicating attempts at sensor scattering, the odd protruding features all indicating physical stealth measures. Dispensers of agents that turn impulse engine emissions into "natural nebulae"? Field manipulation spires that twist and twirl the warp field trailing edge into a "subspace squall"? A system for storing up waste heat and then laying it in stealthy "eggs"?

Timo Saloniemi

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Darkwing]

http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u475/mizuanjin/starstalker1.jpg
She ain't real pretty, but this is what I have so far. Is this a good direction?

 

[Ithekro]

Isn't that an Ur-Quan Dreadnaught?

 

[Darkwing]

A what dreadnought? No, that's a Starbird (70's toy spaceship) mated to a small extended hull from Vance's starship tool kit parts.
Who are the Ur-Quan?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The leaders of the Hierarchy from the game Star Control!

 

[Darkwing]

Thanks. I don't follow video games. Last one I played was probably Wing Commander.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I'm not a big gamer either. Star Control was on the Sega Mega Drive (Genesis I think it was called in the States), though there were a couple more that followed on PC I think--though I'm sure someone will correct me.

 

[Darkwing]

http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u475/mizuanjin/starstalker 1.jpg

All 3 views now.

 

[publiusr]

I loved the Starbirds.

Replacement parts
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1570349
http://starbirdforce.com/
http://bugeyedmonster.com/starbird-avenger/

 

[Darkwing]

Thanks, publius!

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

First time I've heard of this. In one old novel and at least one comic book that referenced it, Kirk commanded the USS Lydia Sutherland prior to the Enterprise, with Gary Mitchell as his XO. It wasn't explicitly mentioned as his first command IIRC, but then again most of the TOS crew history was never really established on screen, compared with the pre-hero careers of most later Trek crews.

Mark