Why aren't they using the Universal Translator at all in that dictionary scene in TUC ?

[at Quark's]

Of course, the real reason was to make this comedic scene possible.

But even assuming that the UT's translation would be 'recognisable' as such (which is the reason given for it), why not simply use the UT in any supportive capacity. For example, why not let the UT provide a basic translation, and then 'spice it up' a bit if that would be too recognisable? Or why not put the UT in some kind of 'dictonary mode' that would have enabled them to look stuff up way faster than with paper dictionaries? Or why didn't they at least use the UT to decipher what the Klingons said instead of wasting time on that, too?

Or is the UT a one-way deal that can only be turned on 100% or off, but not be put in any "intermediate" mode?

You'd also think that if this UT output was so recognisable, they would have run into a lot more trouble than they did in several episodes, trying to get through some alien territory inconspicuously when forced to communicate. Usually the UT seems to provide 'perfect' translations, after all...

Finally, is this the only time in Trek we see the crew use paper books during duty shifts? I remember Picard reading some actual (presumably ancient) books, but that was in his off time doing some 'high culture'....

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The original cut of the film has Valeris intentionally erasing all records of the Klingon language from the UT.

For some reason this was changed with an overdubbed line from Chekov about the UT being recognized.

It does make sense, though. The crew were pretending to be incompetent smugglers, and Uhura's sketchy grasp of Klingon sure fits the bill. And obviously the Klingon guards *recognized* them as such (as per the one guard's line about "Don't catch any bugs" - which is smuggler's lingo that basically means "don't get caught").

 

[at Quark's]

The crew were pretending to be incompetent smugglers, and Uhura's sketchy grasp of Klingon sure fits the bill.

Well, that would explain it. Seems I missed that part. Did get the idea they were pretending to be a freighter, not specifically incompetent (and probably alien) smugglers.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The way I read that scene is, the reason the Ent-A crew had to be so "bumbling" was so the Klingons wouldn't think they were a threat and so would let them pass.

 

[Vger23]

The original cut of the film has Valeris intentionally erasing all records of the Klingon language from the UT.

For some reason this was changed with an overdubbed line from Chekov about the UT being recognized.

Where did you get this info from? I've devoured volumes on the making of the films and never heard this one. Also, at this point of the film, Valeris hadn't been revealed as a traitor.

Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Where did you get this info from?

It's in the novelization.

Also, at this point of the film, Valeris hadn't been revealed as a traitor.

That doesn't mean she wasn't one...

 

[FormerLurker]

When the first torpedo from the cloaked BOP his Kronos One, Valeris is seen initiating a program on her panel. The idea was that the audience would mistake it for engaging her station or something, but in actuality, she's entering the false entry in the computer that shows Enterprise firing on Kronos One. So technically, she was seen to be a traitor right from that moment.

 

[Vger23]

It's in the novelization.



That doesn't mean she wasn't one...

It being in the novelization does not equate to it being in an original cut of the film. You, of course, know this.

 

[Vger23]

When the first torpedo from the cloaked BOP his Kronos One, Valeris is seen initiating a program on her panel. The idea was that the audience would mistake it for engaging her station or something, but in actuality, she's entering the false entry in the computer that shows Enterprise firing on Kronos One. So technically, she was seen to be a traitor right from that moment.

That is UNBELIEVABLY thin. Like, a MASSIVE stretch of fanwankery.

 

[somebuddyX]

That is UNBELIEVABLY thin. Like, a MASSIVE stretch of fanwankery.

The whole scene is ridiculous and something reasonable is not going to make sense of it. One dumb fanwank is as good as any other.

 

[FormerLurker]

That is UNBELIEVABLY thin. Like, a MASSIVE stretch of fanwankery.

More like what subsequent viewings will show to be the dropping of an obvious clue, that first-time viewing doesn't seem so. Kind of like the ending to an M. Night Shyamalan film.

 

[Timo]

FWIW, Trekcore presents us with a late-but-not-final script where the traitor remains Saavik, rather than Valeris. There, the computer dodginess of the traitress is made explicit, in the "trap at sickbay" scene - not only through Spock telling the audience what the accused is guilty of, but through an actual visual flashback to Saavik manipulating the computer.

However, that script only refers to Saavik creating the false evidence of Kirk having fired the torps. There isn't any reference to the UT being erased, or any explanation for the use of paper books. That one seems to have been inserted after Valeris got the bad gal role, and then again omitted.

Whatever Valeris did with the computer on screen can be interpreted in any way of the audience's pleasing. But it makes sense for her to make use of the confusion of hectic moments to do her dastardly deeds: reprogram the computer while torpedoes are flying, perhaps allow fellow conspirators to do further evil while her phaser demonstration so conveniently triggers the alarms, etc.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paul Weaver]

Forget the paper dictionaries - Why didn't they use the UT in the court scene? They had manual translators as if it was the UN

I put it down to the fact neither 2 or 6 were "trek".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Forget the paper dictionaries - Why didn't they use the UT in the court scene? They had manual translators as if it was the UN

The UT's that Kirk and McCoy normally used, were confiscated by the Klingons. So they had to rely on the official Klingon court translator.

 

[Unicron]

Who, in the novelization, was the Klingon captain from the previous movie - Klaa.

 

[Timo]

I don't think we have to assume there was anything manual involved in the courtroom translation, despite the Cold War homage. The heroes just weren't allowed UFP-standard technological gadgets (I shudder to think about the process of removal, considering how invisibly small and quite possibly internal those things must have been throughout TOS already), and were given "significantly more robust and combatworthy", not to mention "very slightly less hasty" Klingon UTs instead...

Those "interpreters" in their booths could just be correspondents for the Klingon media.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The original cut of the film has Valeris intentionally erasing all records of the Klingon language from the UT.

Never heard this before, either.

For some reason this was changed with an overdubbed line from Chekov about the UT being recognized.

And, as VGer23 pointed out above, that would have been before Valeris had been confirmed to be the traitor. She wasn't revealed as being a part of the conspiracy until after Kirk & McCoy had been rescued from Rura Penthe.

It's in the novelization.

Ah, so "pulled out of J.M. Dillard's hindquarters," then. I didn't like the STVI novelization much at the time, mainly because it seemed to be working at cross purposes to a film that I really liked. This lowers my estimation of the book even further.

So they had to rely on the official Klingon court translator.

Who, in the novelization, was the Klingon captain from the previous movie - Klaa.

Which was an in-joke about both parts being played by Todd Bryant.

 

[FormerLurker]

Who, in the novelization, was the Klingon captain from the previous movie - Klaa.

I don't remember that from the novelization, but I do know this: it was the same actor, Todd Bryant, in both roles, causing people to say that Klaa got that gig because his captaincy had been taken away from him, and it was the best work he could get.

Edited to add: JonnyQuest, I hate you.

 

[Timo]

And, as VGer23 pointed out above, that would have been before Valeris had been confirmed to be the traitor.

This isn't particularly relevant. Supposedly, the scene wouldn't have gone "Oh, no, Valeris has deleted our Klingon language files!" but "Oh, no, a mysterious saboteur <insert suspicious glances all around> has deleted our Klingon language files!"...

Of course, this would have called for more of the sort of exposition that the penultimate script featured, with Saavik/Valeris actually operating some controls moments before the fateful discovery. After all, deleting the Klingon files is not an action she should have taken well in advance, because she could not foresee our heroes trying to infiltrate the Klingon Empire. (Instead, she could see them trying to talk themselves out of the jam with the Klingons, thus delighfully digging an even deeper pit for themselves, and for that the heroes would need a working UT.) So Saavik/Valeris would have to act in haste at the last possible moment. But, as we saw in that script, it could have been made to work nicely enough.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And, as VGer23 pointed out above, that would have been before Valeris had been confirmed to be the traitor. She wasn't revealed as being a part of the conspiracy until after Kirk & McCoy had been rescued from Rura Penthe.

Like I said, Valeris didn't have to be revealed as the traitor, to actually be one. She could have erased the UT and no one would have known who did it.