Poll Star Trek 4 - Your Story Preferences?

[Titus Andronicus]

I've thoroughly enjoyed the Kelvin-Universe films, but I'd love to see something that was a bit different. At the very least, an antagonist who is not a villain seeking revenge, but instead a captain from an empire hostile to the Federation (a Klingon, most likely) who is just doing his or her job. Perhaps, said captain even reaches a rapprochement with Kirk to save both crews from a much larger threat.

Above all, I'd like to see a film that's about some sort of quest--an adventure to find a device or perhaps even their version of "The Chase." Some action, adventure, a few questions about "the human experience" and there you go!

 

[CorporalClegg]

Star Trek 4: The Search for Moar McGuffin.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Indiana Kirk and the secret of the Dilithium Stone

 

[Kane2026]

I've thoroughly enjoyed the Kelvin-Universe films, but I'd love to see something that was a bit different. At the very least, an antagonist who is not a villain seeking revenge, but instead a captain from an empire hostile to the Federation (a Klingon, most likely) who is just doing his or her job. Perhaps, said captain even reaches a rapprochement with Kirk to save both crews from a much larger threat.

Above all, I'd like to see a film that's about some sort of quest--an adventure to find a device or perhaps even their version of "The Chase." Some action, adventure, a few questions about "the human experience" and there you go!

Darmok style anyone?

 

[Titus Andronicus]

Darmok style anyone?

I'd certainly go for that!

There's a good deal writers could do with the next movie--I understand not wanting to take too many risks with the property, but to really get the most bang for their buck with the Star Trek film franchise they need to do just that.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

A story that doesn't crib its "beat the big bad's army" resolution from "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes". It was funny when "Mars Attacks" did it, but eye-rollingly bad in Beyond.

 

[Tesophius]

Something Darmok style would be pretty cool

 

[Korusan]

Beyond has great writing and characterization so it gets a pass on a slightly underwritten villain, but given that Star Trek Into Darkness basically doesn't even need to happen (you can seriously skip from 2009 to Beyond and not miss anything since Pike's death is never even mentioned) I really hope they avoid that trope again.

 

[KyleRaynous]

Let the plot revolve around the mirror universe and apply the concept of DS9 Rebels to the Terran Empire of the time, being his father one of the rebels, perhaps even ashamed of the actions of his own son, Mirror-Kirk, both meeting the father/son they never had?

 

[Smellmet]

Let the plot revolve around the mirror universe and apply the concept of DS9 Rebels to the Terran Empire of the time, being his father one of the rebels, perhaps even ashamed of the actions of his own son, Mirror-Kirk, both meeting the father/son they never had?

Sorry, but I think that's a self indulgent box office bomb. General audiences won't even know what it's about.

 

[BillJ]

Borg/Fall of the Federation.

 

[KyleRaynous]

Sorry, but I think that's a self indulgent box office bomb. General audiences won't even know what it's about.

Really? There's a parallel universe where the Federation, a pacific armada that explores the universe, turns out to be an aggressive empire that expands throughout the galaxy. Kirk's father is part of a group of rebels who figth againts this empire, which includes his own son. The differences between both space expansion philosophies could be adequately developed, and the fact that gave rise to Star Trek could also be reviewed: Cochraine's first Warp trip (the opposite reaction to the visit of the Vulcans, as in ST Enterprise), something that may well have been mentioned in the 2009 movie as a way of putting new audiences in context.

Besides, it is not as if there were many ways to bring back George Kirk without going into the whole time travel thing once again...

 

[BillJ]

Really? There's a parallel universe where the Federation, a pacific armada that explores the universe, turns out to be an aggressive empire that expands throughout the galaxy. Kirk's father is part of a group of rebels who figth againts this empire, which includes his own son. The differences between both space expansion philosophies could be adequately developed, and the fact that gave rise to Star Trek could also be reviewed: Cochraine's first Warp trip (the opposite reaction to the visit of the Vulcans, as in ST Enterprise), something that may well have been mentioned in the 2009 movie as a way of putting new audiences in context.

I tend to think with these types of movies, audiences want something of a continuing story. They don't want to just leap from one adventure to the next with nothing connecting them.

If the movies go forward, they need to think about more than just the next one. They need to think how this movie will hook people and get them buying tickets for the next movie, and the movie after that.

 

[KyleRaynous]

I tend to think with these types of movies, audiences want something of a continuing story. They don't want to just leap from one adventure to the next with nothing connecting them.

Because Beyond and Into Darkness were deply connected (outside of the 5-year mission thing).

 

[BillJ]

Because Beyond and Into Darkness were deply connected (outside of the 5-year mission thing).

Into Darkness left hanging threads about Section 31, Augments and a Klingon-Federation war, and did nearly $500 million at the box office. Beyond totally abandoned the prior film and did more than $100 million less (and may have jeopardized the film series).

I don't think Beyond is a bad film, but I don't think it was the film audiences wanted and they stayed away. Paramount gave into the fans, and it has burned them pretty bad.

 

[Gaith]

I, too, vote for a Mirror Universe story.

The Kelvin series first screwed up by retreading old ground with Khan, then they screwed up with an "original" story with the abysmal mindless shoot-'em-up of Beyond. It desperately needs a strong hook to bring people back, and Hemsworth-not-as-Thor is not that. (Ghosbusters '16, anyone? Rush? Huntsman: Winter's War? Yeah, didn't think so.) We need Quinto with a goatee, Pine vs. Pine, and women being all sexy without demeaning the integrity of female Federation characters. A Mirror Universe allows for multiple fun and iconic villains without having to hire extra actors, and allows everyone to have fun while simultaneously raising the stakes without yet another trite revenge-seeking villain. It's a slam dunk!

Hell, they could even bring in Khan as a terrifying Starfleet dictator, played by an actual Indian for once, as the John Harrison surgery wouldn't have happened. He could be a background presence most of the movie, like the Emperor in ANH/ESB, while our heroes spend most of the movie trying to get back to their home timeline, and the third act is a mission to acquire the tech to do so. But, in the end - TWIST! They fail, and Khan is now on to them, and eager to learn how to cross over into their home reality and steal their tech. Which leads directly to the fifth movie: the ISS Enterprise vs. Khan and his all Augments. BOOM!! *Mic drop*

"My name is KHAN!
...
No, really, guys, my name is Irrfan Khan. That's my actual name."​

Oh, and one more thing: a utopian society whose ideals have been perverted by an illegitimate tyrant? Not to get all TNZ here, but what better way for Trek to regain some of its trademark (and sorely missed) contemporary relevance?!

#MAKE THE TERRAN EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN
​

I think everyone can comprehend "evil twin universe", it's as simple as "Trek mumbo jumbo" gets.

Yup.

I think it's completely OTT and a step too far considering we're in another timeline already. These kind of stories only appeal to hardcore Trek/Sci-fi fans, not your average popcorn muncher, who's dollars we are chasing here don't forget.

Dude, ever heard of a little movie called Captain America: Civil War? It assumes you're keeping track of a dozen characters with varied histories and interplay from over ten previous movies, and features a low-key villain and only one really big action sequence. It was a very complex narrative, demanding that the audience do a lot of work beforehand... and it made over a billion dollars. Contrast that with Beyond, which had an extremely simple story (scary alien vampire wants to kill everyone because pre-vampire reasons), and underperformed.

my fiance, who has seen all three reboot films multiple times with me, said during the point in Beyond where nuSpock sees the picture of Prime Spock with the words 'deceased' she asked me if that was his dad, and that was on second viewing.

No offense, hombre, but if she didn't recognize Nimoy as Spock, especially after viewing the previous movies multiple times, that's on her. In any case, it's not a useful counter-anecdote, because that was a minor detail, not the hook of the movie. You say a "simple" story is needed? "Trapped in an evil universe" - there's your hook in five words! It doesn't get any simpler, or more compelling at first glance, than that.

 

[Smellmet]

Dude, ever heard of a little movie called Captain America: Civil War? It assumes you're keeping track of a dozen characters with varied histories and interplay from over ten previous movies, and features a low-key villain and only one really big action sequence. It was a very complex narrative, demanding that the audience do a lot of work beforehand... and it made over a billion dollars. Contrast that with Beyond, which had an extremely simple story (scary alien vampire wants to kill everyone because pre-vampire reasons), and underperformed.

Unfair comparison. The Marvel and Captain America films are a franchise at their absolute pinnacle in terms of exposure and box office success, which just about everyone else with a major franchise is trying to copy in some way because of their success, to the extent we're even seeing the start of cinematic universes with monsters and horror characters emerging. There's merchandise for them, like, everywhere and they have audiences young and old, lock, stock and barrel. Success Trek can only dream about.

Now go and ask a member of the general public who Nero is, for example. It's a fair question, he's the baddie from the most successful Trek movie domestically. You'll be met with shrugs in the main I suspect. People have moved on, or forgotten about it.

No offense, hombre, but if she didn't recognize Nimoy as Spock, especially after viewing the previous movies multiple times, that's on her. In any case, it's not a useful counter-anecdote, because that was a minor detail, not the hook of the movie. You say a "simple" story is needed? "Trapped in an evil universe" - there's your hook in five words! It doesn't get any simpler, or more compelling at first glance, than that.

Well, my other half is exactly the casual viewer to which I'm referring. She's only ever sat through the movies because I've either dragged her to the cinema or put on the blu ray as I've been forced to sit through one of her shitty rom-coms. Hell I even have to explain Back to the Future II to her. By the time Beyond came about it was 'just another Trek movie' and the momentum was lost. She doesn't care about Star Trek like we do, and has just enjoyed the films for what they are, sci-fi action blockbusters.

A mirror universe story within an alternate timeline? And expecting people to piece all that together based on a film that will be a decade old by this point, with very little exposure inbetween? Give me a break. I just don't see how that translates into a box office success for the franchise, mirror universe stuff is the preserve of small screen Trek in my opinion. Give us something that we can relate to - political thriller, something with some social commentary, I'd even take time travel over it, and I don't much fancy that either. Bring back Khan, the Klingons, hell even the Borg if it comes down to it. Do whatever it takes to make it look like a must see and get bums on seats.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'd really like to see a space chase movie, where the Enterprise is warping from system to system after someone/something very important. They end up visiting Tholians and getting caught in a web, the Romulans and narrowly avoiding an intergalactic incident, they end up being chased by some of the aliens they pissed off en route etc

 

[Gaith]

Now go and ask a member of the general public who Nero is, for example. It's a fair question, he's the baddie from the most successful Trek movie domestically. You'll be met with shrugs in the main I suspect. People have moved on, or forgotten about it.

Sure, and why not? Nero has barely if at all even been referred to since '09, with only hardcore fans knowing or caring about Marcus' expeditions getting to the Botany Bay before Kirk and Co., so I don't see what this has to do with anything.

A mirror universe story within an alternate timeline? And expecting people to piece all that together based on a film that will be a decade old by this point, with very little exposure inbetween?

You keep bringing up the "within an alternate timeline" as if it matters, but it doesn't, not one bit, nor any more than it mattered to Beyond! It's an evil mirror universe from the ones our heroes know and are trying to return to, period. True fans will understand that it's one of infinite parallel universes, but normal audiences will just get that it's a topsy-turvy, evil world, like in Back to the Future Part II and X-Men: Days of Future Past. Perhaps, for the sake of science, you'd like to poll your girlfriend? Give her a twenty-second pitch for the crew being "Trapped in an evil universe", rehearsed and timed with a stopwatch if you like, don't mention the alternate timeline, sell it like you mean it, and report back? I know I'd be curious to hear her response.

Give us something that we can relate to - political thriller, something with some social commentary

It's a prison break story, with the prison in this case being a whole universe, and, as I said, it's a great opportunity for social commentary, in that showing a society with all the wrong rules shows how important the rules really are.

 

[Smellmet]

Sure, and why not? Nero has barely if at all even been referred to since '09, with only hardcore fans knowing or caring about Marcus' expeditions getting to the Botany Bay before Kirk and Co., so I don't see what this has to do with anything.

Well, since the entire premise of this movie series rests on the actions of this character, I'd say it has a everything to do with it. If people have forgot about the events of ST09 and moved on, this series becomes a harder sell I'd say.

You keep bringing up the "within an alternate timeline" as if it matters, but it doesn't, not one bit, nor any more than it mattered to Beyond! It's an evil mirror universe from the ones our heroes know and are trying to return to, period. True fans will understand that it's one of infinite parallel universes, but normal audiences will just get that it's a topsy-turvy, evil world, like in Back to the Future Part II and X-Men: Days of Future Past. Perhaps, for the sake of science, you'd like to poll your girlfriend? Give her a twenty-second pitch for the crew being "Trapped in an evil universe", rehearsed and timed with a stopwatch if you like, don't mention the alternate timeline, sell it like you mean it, and report back? I know I'd be curious to hear her response. .

Of course it matters, since they are to all intents and purposes in one anyway. We're asking your average Joe to put dollars down on this movie, not your hardcore fanbase who knows Trek inside out, who would have nerdgasms over this.

Oh and her response? 'What the hell is a mirror universe? Sounds fucking stupid' - like it or not these are the people who's dollars Trek are chasing, ok, maybe not hardcore rom commers like my other half, but you see my point.

It's a prison break story, with the prison in this case being a whole universe, and, as I said, it's a great opportunity for social commentary, in that showing a society with all the wrong rules shows how important the rules really are.

Fair enough, you've sold it reasonably well here, but the bottom line is - I just don't like it as an idea for the next movie, I don't really like Mirror Universe stuff in general, or most of the episodes that's used the concept previously, hence our opposing view. I'm not even a big fan of time travel and the alternate timeline/universe either, but it was done very well in ST09, quickly established what went on, then got on with the movie without the sci-fi element bogging it down, which is what I fear a mirror universe story would do.

Hey if it happens and it's done 500 million plus and is a decent movie, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong on these boards.