"Enterprise" too advanced for 22nd Century

[Jax]

The uniforms were also wrong and ugly for the period. Should have been more like "The Cage" style era uniforms or completely different.

Why would 22nd century pre Federation fashion, be anything like 23rd century Federation fashion?

I still wish the show was more primitive much inline with the 23rd century

You mean ENT having...

No Shields
Limited Warp Drive
No Tractor Beam
Transporter and the UT in their early stages

To name a few. I will grant you TPTB did screw up on a few things but that's on UPN who I believe pushed for Photon esq torpedoes in season 3. I love the idea of the cannons, they looked retro and futuristic all that once IMO but I wish they were more Pulse than Phase Cannons (the pilot had a scene of ENT firing some type of pulse weapon). Also I would of preferred small upgrades to the spacial torpedoes than the Season 3 upgrade to Photonics but still overall ENT was not that advanced. Also they should of kept the Pulse Pistols that we saw in the pilot before Reed remembered all of a sudden oh we have these phase pistols in storage, better get them out.

I like the look of the ship and I have no problem with the Akira nature to it because the Akira must of been based off something.

 

[OpenMaw]

I actually wouldn't have had the transporter at all. No transporters, no phasers or beam weapons on the ship at all. They would have had the spatial torpedos from the start, but they wouldn't have had the problems getting them to work in battle. These would be the tried and true weapon of the Earth Starfleet by 2151. The only other weapons would be the Pulse Plasma Cannons like what Enterprise used in the pilot/the cargo ships had mounted on their bows. Used primarily as defense against attack and for deflecting debris larger than what the deflector could handle. Oh yeah, no "Phase Pistols" either. They would have kept using the plasma weapons seen in the pilot. Enterprise would have been a warp 3 ship, not a warp 5 ship. I'd also have avoided the idea of polarising the hull plating. Again, the ship would be protected by the PPC system. Giving a lot of room for improvement leading up to TOS.

This would allow the technology to influence the feel of the show, and make it feel a lot more rugged early on, and a lot less familiar to most Star Trek, and then we could also have that glee of seeing them get the ship to go faster, coming up against enemys with particle weapons and having no direct means of defense(Having to outrun, or out think in these situations. Sauce for the goose, and all that...) By the end of season 1 or 2, the ship would be pushing toward warp 4, picked up some beam weapons off an alien ship, and engineering new weapons systems, all the while sending back delayed-message reports to Starfleet, allowing the entire fleet to upgrade itself. Giving the entire mission a sense of gravitas as they basically effect human development at the bleeding edge of space.

It's just one of those things that irks me about early Enterprise. The idiocy of the characters about really basic things, and the fact that the technology is already, more or less, "Comfortably Trek."

Some of the things they did were really good. Like having the magnetic grapplers instead of a tractor beam. It was more than just a name change. It actually allowed for more advanced races like the Vulcan's and Andorians to show us up and limited our heroes abilities. Obviously the grapplers can't do everything that the tractor beams can. Same goes for having no "shield" analog, or phaser type weapons. No means to break through shields, and without any shields/polarized plating ourselves we cannot deflect in coming enemy attacks outside of point defenses, which won't block everything in heated engagements.

Same for transporters. Not even having them means that the characters would have to rely on the shuttles and in many instances be very clever and sneaky about how they do things. No more dropping in and out on a whim.

 

[Devilpogostick]

Oh right, I do have a bit of a gripe over the sudden changes they did with the tech during season 1 from plasma to phaser-ish. I mean I guess they had the decency to explain why they needed phase cannons and why Enterprise didn't have them at the start as to have Archer admit he was somewhat foolish to rush the ship in active duty before it finished up all the details needed.

The phase pistols? Not so. I really think the original pistols offer a new dilemma since its low tech and offers no stun setting. Like if there's a conflict, is it wise to pull out the guns knowing you might fatally harm someone? Why not like talk it out? The fact the phase pistols were introduced early...kinda made this a cop-out with the fact there's stun shots. And of course, I didn’t like the design too much anyway (it's kinda looks like a generic ray gun in my opinion. Though at least it looks like a weapon compare to 24th century phasers) as a personal opinion.

But again, it didn't feel like it was too advanced in my opinion. I mean yes, it's technically phasers but I felt they were somewhat primitive and while powerful...it's nothing too big to raise eyebrows for.

 

[CaptainSpirk]

All valid points. But then, how come they used the Constitution-class starships in the two-part episode "In a Mirror Darkly?" Shouldn't they have ret-conned the starship to make it look more retro instead of the advanced look like they did with what was shown?

Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned the 24th century style rank pips? They should have used a more creative rank design. Such as three stripe rank for Captain, two stripe for Commander etc. or something entirely different. The uniforms should have been more of a one piece blue jumpsuit and with a different command division colors, like in "The "Cage", but more retro than that.

You mean ENT having...

No Shields
Limited Warp Drive
No Tractor Beam
Transporter and the UT in their early stages

To name a few. I will grant you TPTB did screw up on a few things but that's on UPN who I believe pushed for Photon esq torpedoes in season 3. I love the idea of the cannons, they looked retro and futuristic all that once IMO but I wish they were more Pulse than Phase Cannons (the pilot had a scene of ENT firing some type of pulse weapon). Also I would of preferred small upgrades to the spacial torpedoes than the Season 3 upgrade to Photonics but still overall ENT was not that advanced. Also they should of kept the Pulse Pistols that we saw in the pilot before Reed remembered all of a sudden oh we have these phase pistols in storage, better get them out.

I don't mean that drastic. Imagine no shields. But limited warp drive like someone mentioned before such as warp 3. Tractor beam is more 23rd to 24th century technology, as are the transporter. Also, with the advancement of CGI technology, wouldn't they have used more shuttlepod scenes instead of the Transporter, which they did, and use the transporter only for bio transport. But they used it far too often as well.

What is TPTB by the way?

 

[Jax]

The Powers that Be (B&B and other writers but in this case UPN execs)

Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned the 24th century style rank pips?

I honestly don't care about the pips, that too much nitpicking for my tastes.

But limited warp drive like someone mentioned before such as warp 3

Until season 3, ENT did seem to spend alot of time at around the warp 3 mark if memory serves (cruising speed I assume). Warp 4 or 4.5 was only used in critical situations and the ship did have a habit of shaking and it was not something they could maintain for long.

 

[Mage]

If I recall correctly, no transporters was someting that TPTB decided on quite early. But again, brainless studio-execs felt that Trek needs transporters, so the decision was made that were only just approved for humans, but no one really dared to use them.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Does anyone else think that "Star Trek: Enterprise" was too advanced for the 22nd Century?

Going by a strict reading of The Original Series, yes.

But it's just a TV show, and we have a LOT of 24th century Star Trek stuff today (phones/tablets for very starters) so unless they ignored real life and set Enterprise in an alternate universe where our current day technology didn't exist and things evolved from the 1960's to the 23rd century as imagined in the 1960's. they're kinda stuck.

Star Trek: Discovery will do the same again.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It's also interesting to see how different artists and creative teams imagined the look of the mid-22nd century. ENT tried to look futuristic from the early 2000's, but Star Trek Beyond's USS Franklin looked retro, with 80's style green-on-black screengraphics (which were really cool for a 2-hour movie, but for a weekly show would get hard on the eyes real fast). Beyond's Franklin uniforms were similar to ENT's, but grey and (at least in the concept art) had TOS-style rank braids instead of pips.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

It wasn't the ship that was too advanced, it was the writing, which was a) still in the TNG era mindset, and b) as stated hamstrung by studio dictates that the show be recognisably Star Trek.

I would have gone a lot more primitive with the ships, modular with a warp drive section, a central spinning habitation and arboretum module (not enough energy for artificial gravity across the whole ship while in warp), also producing the ship's oxygen and food, and a forward impulse powered contact/combat section, which would detach and explore systems while the main ship waited outside the Oort cloud. Weapons would be railguns and missiles, and transporter tech would be limited to cargo transporters only. For shielding the only option would be to increase power to the deflector dish, so the energy field meant to divert interstellar particles away from the ship, could also handle more energetic material like enemy railgun shells, and maybe lasers (the ship could also have a mirror finish).

And Brexit would mean Brexit. I mean Warp 4 would mean Warp 4, the 9 hours to Neptune and back would play into the 'real world' so weeks and months voyaging between systems not hours and days. The show would by necessity be an anthology show, covering a fleet of exploration contact ships, so while one ship might be in transit, you'll catch up with another ship as it makes system fall around another star, or an interstellar contact. 20 light years around Earth would be known space, Earth colonies and other powers, 40 light years would be the Final Frontier of the mid 22nd Century. Vulcans would be our friends, enemy powers would be the Andorians and the Tellarites, and the Centaurians would be neutral. I dunno if the Centaurians would be native to Alpha Centauri, or whether there would be a mass exodus from Earth following Cochrane's discovery and the post atomic horror, and the millions who emigrate to Centaurus over the first hundred years, find remnants of an alien civilisation there and find some tech advancements, dilithium, real shielding, better computers, maybe even some salvagable ships, enough for them to declare independence from Earth within 50 years of colonisation. Vulcans have faster ships and better sensor technology, Andorians have better weapons technology and better artificial gravity control, Tellarites are better ship builders and have a bigger trading fleet, and transporters rated for lifeforms. Humans are more adaptable and advance quicker than everyone else. Of course the show's about the creation of the Federation. How these races can be stronger together, despite and because of their differences.

No Borg, No Klingons, No Ferengi, and definitely no time travel.

 

[CaptainSpirk]

I honestly don't care about the pips, that too much nitpicking for my tastes.

I like nitpicking. If the designers were meant to be creative, surely they would have come up with some interesting concept than reuse the 24th century rank concept.

As for the ship, I would have liked to have seen the circular looking ship we saw in "The Motion Picture" recreation room, or something quite similar or something more advanced but not too advanced like the Akira-class.

 

[Ithekro]

The problems with some of the retro ideas is that the show wouldn't work if they are too low tech.

Warp 3? If we go by the TOS warp scale they seemed to use on Enterprise, Warp 3 will not get the ship to the next star system in less than a month and more likely two months. They'd cover approximately half a light year a week. They can cross 27 light years in a year going continuously at Warp 3 from one point to the end of the year.

Warp 2 and Warp 3 allow for commerce and colonization projects as well as deep space missions. It does not make for weekly high adventure space exploration television shows.

No shielding or anti-beam defenses? Well their hull gets pierced the first high tech alien they come across and most of the crew die because they can't outrun anything, and their weapons will do nothing, and they can't defend the ship. Even with polarized hull plating and the early beam weapons, the Enterprise was outclassed by almost everything, they just had the means of surviving long enough to get their warp 5 engines to kick in and run, or find a weak point to exploit.

A Babylon 5 analogy is the Earth fighting the Minbari...it doesn't go well for Earth.

No transporters is possible, that's fine.

Uniforms? How can you go retro from a turtleneck sweater and not be laughed at as unrealistic?

As for the displays and thing? eh? Whatever.

The USS Defiant, the Constitution-class was remade to look like she was for continuity. It is suppose to look exactly like it did in the last episode we saw this very same ship ("The Tholian Web") But it was also made quite clear that she was far, far more advanced than anything in the 22nd Century. Warp 8? Easy. Phasers and photon torpedoes make short work of Vulcan and Andorian starships, and pummel the overly built and armored Terran NX-class starships. Shields? Almost impregnable by weaponry of the era. You don't want to take on a Connie if you are a century out of date. Though it is also likely that a Connie would suffer nearly as badly if it faced a Galaxy-class starship with the same difference in ages (a Cage era Constitution verses a Dominion Wars era Galaxy).

 

[Christopher]

All valid points. But then, how come they used the Constitution-class starships in the two-part episode "In a Mirror Darkly?" Shouldn't they have ret-conned the starship to make it look more retro instead of the advanced look like they did with what was shown?

Umm, all along you've been saying that TOS did look more "retro" than ENT. So don't you have this backward?

Anyway, you're far too preoccupied with surface appearance. That doesn't define technological advancement. It's just an aesthetic. Heck, really advanced tech would be able to look however you wanted. Even today, you can find cases for computers and tablets and the like that look like '40s radio sets or something. It's just the surface.

Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned the 24th century style rank pips?

You're the one who keeps tossing around the word "retro," as in, the tendency of designers to revive designs from an earlier era. Maybe the 24th-century uniforms use rank pips because they had a designer who wanted to go "retro" and evoke the rank pips used in the 22nd century. Heck, just look at the TWOK-era uniforms, which are basically Horatio Hornblower cosplay. It doesn't get more retro.

What is TPTB by the way?

"The Powers That Be," an old Biblical phrase that's come to be used to refer to the authorities in charge of a given thing. Fandom tends to use it to refer to the producers and executives of a TV series or movie.

If I recall correctly, no transporters was someting that TPTB decided on quite early. But again, brainless studio-execs felt that Trek needs transporters, so the decision was made that were only just approved for humans, but no one really dared to use them.

In my post-series Enterprise novels, I've had it turn out that transporters cause cumulative molecular damage with extended use, so the Federation has stopped using them (except for emergencies) until they can be made safer. I wanted to come closer to the developers' original desire for a transporter-free series.

I think the producers of seasons 1-2 did a pretty good job minimizing transporter use. At first, they kept coming up with reasons why the transporter wouldn't work, and then they sometimes just ignored it and used shuttlepods without any particular justification. But they started using transporters more during the season 3 Xindi arc -- presumably the high stakes of the mission meant the crew had no choice but to overcome their resistance to transporter use -- and in season 4, transporters were being used as routinely as they were in the earlier shows/later eras.

 

[at Quark's]

Some good examples in my eyes of NX-01 (or other tech of that era) being more primitive than later models:

- The somewhat more cramped ('submarine' ) feel to it. Doors that don't open automatically, handgrips everywhere, etc.. Didn't usually feature in any story explicitly but still did much to set the tone.
- Grappler instead of tractor beam.
- The transporter that is used only very hesitantly. I would perhaps have liked it even more if they'd had a transporter, but not approved for personnel use. (But I suppose that limits some storytelling where you want to pull out your hero at the last possible moment).
- The computer that can help a lot when deciphering a new language but doesn't (usually) provide auto translations of a language never heard before in the blink of an eye.
- Also that they sometimes had to 'suit up' when going to other environments, something we didn't see often anymore in the 24th century (except for First Contact and in Voyager on the Demon Planet, IIRC).

'Primitive' versions of technology that didn't do much for me:

- Lower warp factors. Logical and necessary for consistency, but ultimately, warp factors are just the speed of plot. The ship will be 'just in time / just too late' in any century, or be (marginally) faster or slower than a competing vessel, simply as the plot requires.
- Phase pistols. Except for fewer settings and a different name, what was the difference with phasers?
- Polarised hull plating . Also just a name change (as far as I could tell), no real impact on the stories told.

 

[fireproof78]

I like nitpicking. If the designers were meant to be creative, surely they would have come up with some interesting concept than reuse the 24th century rank concept.

As for the ship, I would have liked to have seen the circular looking ship we saw in "The Motion Picture" recreation room, or something quite similar or something more advanced but too advanced like the Akira-class.

There is nothing about the NX-01 that is "more advanced" like an Akira class. It's strictly a visual similarity, like the pips, which were probably designed to be visual short hand to be familiar Star Trek.

As for nitpicking, you might enjoy this article about the design, including a discussion with Doug Drexler, the designer.

There are certainly some design influences from TNG and the like, but I always felt that Enterprise was sufficiently less technologically advanced to be a prequel, with the occasional issue like holodecks and hull plating that is indistinguishable from shields.

 

[Voth commando1]

All valid points. But then, how come they used the Constitution-class starships in the two-part episode "In a Mirror Darkly?" Shouldn't they have ret-conned the starship to make it look more retro instead of the advanced look like they did with what was shown?

Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned the 24th century style rank pips? They should have used a more creative rank design. Such as three stripe rank for Captain, two stripe for Commander etc. or something entirely different. The uniforms should have been more of a one piece blue jumpsuit and with a different command division colors, like in "The "Cage", but more retro than that.



I don't mean that drastic. Imagine no shields. But limited warp drive like someone mentioned before such as warp 3. Tractor beam is more 23rd to 24th century technology, as are the transporter. Also, with the advancement of CGI technology, wouldn't they have used more shuttlepod scenes instead of the Transporter, which they did, and use the transporter only for bio transport. But they used it far too often as well.

What is TPTB by the way?

They went out of their way to make the defiant look 60s Trek. You do understand the whole premise of the episode don't you? That the Defiant came from the prime universe and was a hundred years more advanced. They show that in the battle where Mirror Archer and crew crush the alien rebellion. It's also shown that control of this advanced tech gives one control of the empire.

The ranks I have no issue with or uniforms.

 

[Kemaiku]

If you go to the WaxingMoon designs website, they made complete deck plans of the interior of the NX-01 years ago which are very detailed and accurate (for the most part).

The sheer amount of interior volume devoted to machinary is a good indicator of how less advanced she is, and the amount of room people can move around is quite a bit less. It's crampt in there, whereas when we see the Connie workspaces in In a Mirror Darkly, even those are bigger than the NX class' primary corridors.

 

[Prax]

If you go to the WaxingMoon designs website, they made complete deck plans of the interior of the NX-01 years ago which are very detailed and accurate (for the most part).

The sheer amount of interior volume devoted to machinary is a good indicator of how less advanced she is, and the amount of room people can move around is quite a bit less. It's crampt in there, whereas when we see the Connie workspaces in In a Mirror Darkly, even those are bigger than the NX class' primary corridors.

They did such an amazing job on those images. I like how the MACO's have their own little command and training area on the bottom deck.

You're right, it is cramped. Especially compared to the later ships. I remember Archer always ducking in his office and hitting his head on ceiling once. And he has the tiniest Captain's Quarters of all I think.

 

[GabyBee]

I think it's also worth noting that before NX-01, Starfleet's interstellar capabilities are implied to be quite limited. Personnel of the Earth Cargo Service (E.C.S.) are considered the most experienced in dealing with alien cultures, rather than Starfleet. And when compared to NX-01, E.C.S. freighters seem very primitive. So when viewing ENT, I think it's reasonable to consider the relative context that NX-01 is not just one of a number of "ships of the line", but is, as its registry suggests, a highly experimental prototype. Even while much of its technology is "primitive" by TOS standards, whatever might indeed seem "advanced" is very probably the result of it being the 22nd Century Starfleet's "great experiment".

 

[Kemaiku]

^In season 3 we get dialogue explaining that part of F or G deck has been converted for them, but we never see it on the show. So the guy had to design the Maco deck himself.

 

[Devilpogostick]

Minor thing, but back to In a Mirror Darkly, I really enjoy how mirror Archer and group are in awe and had trouble just understanding the Defiant to the point they mostly got only the basics down...And it was still enough to outright destroy anything it runs into