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Personal "Deal Breakers" for watching Fan Productions

No, because no one compiles lists of shows that don't have something.
What about "Outer Limits" or "Twilight Zone?"
MASH actually had a couple of "bottle shows" that focused on other characters other than the main ones or nonrecurring characters, as did Stargate, and Dr. Who. Star Trek did it too, occasionally, with notable examples being "Lower Decks" and "Living Witness."

So, why not create an anthology series? Why not look at the Graduating Class 2364 and different officers and their assignments? The whole point of art is to overcome limits, and fan films can be great examples of those.
 
I have no desire to see Axanar, even if people proclaimed it the best Star Trek ever. What they've done is burned up my very last vestige of good will in regards to that production, and that applies to people who produced it and then foisted that charade upon everyone else, including RMB. Any new production of his, any new projects he's involved in, I won't be watching.
 
How many fanfilms continue to use recurring characters since the guidelines came out? And how many fanfilms have been C&Ded or sued? Any? No? Could it be the people making them actually know what they're doing?
From a safe harbor standpoint, it doesn't benefit me to interpret the guidelines as potentially being more lenient than they appear. Even if I'm metaphorically wearing a tinfoil hat, I'm no less safe wearing it. It would only benefit me to interpret the guidelines more liberally if I have affirmative evidence that such productions are indeed protected. If you can provide relevant examples, far be it me to stop you. But devoid of such evidence, I don't see why I should adopt a potentially riskier proposition purely on faith.
The history of television is replete with half-hour dramas which worked perfectly fine, so the argument that 30 minutes is too little is specious on its face.
Yes, but imagine if everything on TV had to be 30 minutes or less, with no continuations or multi-part story arcs. Does anyone believe that such a restriction would universally result in equal or better television? There's a big difference between creating a drama for a particular format and being able to shoehorn a longer drama into a that format.
 
Why is "really nice guys" in quotes?
To add emphasis.

I understand that Steven Spielberg isn't a particularly nice person to work for, in fact he's often a complete ass, despite this I enjoy his movies.

My enjoyment of Axanar (should it ever see the light of day) will be based on my personal perception of the finished product, and not on my feeling about members of the production crew.

I've gradually come to the opinion that Gene Roddenberry wasn't a very nice man, but I continue to enjoy the series that he conceived.
 
To add emphasis.

I understand that Steven Spielberg isn't a particularly nice person to work for, in fact he's often a complete ass, despite this I enjoy his movies.

My enjoyment of Axanar (should it ever see the light of day) will be based on my personal perception of the finished product, and not on my feeling about members of the production crew.

I've gradually come to the opinion that Gene Roddenberry wasn't a very nice man, but I continue to enjoy the series that he conceived.

If you've paid any attention to the debacle that Alec Peters and his fellow crew members have done since the lawsuit came down, you should be able to understand why many people would not watch or endorse Axanar in any way. I absolutely refuse to enable Alec's sense of entitlement and arrogance that drives him to con people out of their hard-earned money, or RMB's tendency to be an ass or do the odd bit of doxxing to people he doesn't like on twitter. This not about only wanting to watch stuff by "really nice guys," to imply otherwise is grossly simplifying the situation.
 
From a safe harbor standpoint, it doesn't benefit me to interpret the guidelines as potentially being more lenient than they appear. Even if I'm metaphorically wearing a tinfoil hat, I'm no less safe wearing it. It would only benefit me to interpret the guidelines more liberally if I have affirmative evidence that such productions are indeed protected. If you can provide relevant examples, far be it me to stop you. But devoid of such evidence, I don't see why I should adopt a potentially riskier proposition purely on faith.

Yes, but imagine if everything on TV had to be 30 minutes or less, with no continuations or multi-part story arcs. Does anyone believe that such a restriction would universally result in equal or better television? There's a big difference between creating a drama for a particular format and being able to shoehorn a longer drama into a that format.
Since TV's main purpose is to entertain, I would say that it could potentially do so, yes. This is part of human history is the nature of stories and drama, that often were not long, drawn out, stories, but shorter, sometimes pithier, because time was limited. There are so many books by authors that I enjoy that would have been great if they had continued on, but didn't. Doesn't make those stories less enjoyable, even if the larger world was never explored.

A second point is that these are not stories told in a vacuum. They are Star Trek fan films, a sub genre of a sub genre, meaning the audience is already familiar with the world in a way that provides a short cut. Visuals don't have to be explained, establishing shots are not necessary because it's already a known.

The argument that stories will be weaker because of it is fundamentally flawed, because few TV shows have a built in audience or a pre-established world. Fan films film a unique niche in storytelling because the world is already known enough to jump in without set up.
 
Yes, but imagine if everything on TV had to be 30 minutes or less, with no continuations or multi-part story arcs. Does anyone believe that such a restriction would universally result in equal or better television? There's a big difference between creating a drama for a particular format and being able to shoehorn a longer drama into a that format.
You're totally barking up the wrong tree if you think that argument is going to have any traction with me. "The absence of limitations is the enemy of art," as Orson Welles said, and I'm a proponent of that. Star Trek of various stripes has always operated under various restrictions. Truly creative people figure out how to use that to their advantage.
 
You're totally barking up the wrong tree if you think that argument is going to have any traction with me. "The absence of limitations is the enemy of art," as Orson Welles said, and I'm a proponent of that. Star Trek of various stripes has always operated under various restrictions. Truly creative people figure out how to use that to their advantage.

This. Or so Trekkies understand, let's hear from most Trekkie's favorite savior, Nicholas Meyer:

I believe that art thrives on restrictions, and that when you’re forced to be ingenious, things get better than if you can throw oodles of money at the problem.

Source: https://filmschoolrejects.com/38-th...ar-trek-ii-commentary-b7acb1b6daac#.ueqvqdrx2
 
A lot of people have been mentioning that there are good stories that can be told in 30 minutes or less. That does not mean every story would be better if told in that time frame. For example, I would argue that the pilot episode of Aurora would not be more enjoyable if edited down to 30 or less minutes. You can tell many good stories in 30 minutes, but don't delude yourself into thinking they're the same kind of stories you would tell in a longer format.

A good metaphor would be short stories versus novels. Short story writers are not necessarily good novel writers and vice versa. In fact, the two formats very much require different sets of skills. Novel writing requires you to track a greater number of details over time and consider long term consequences. Most novel writers would probably tell you that if you want to get good a writing novels, you should practice writing novels, not short stories. Conversely, many experienced novel writers might have difficulty writing short stories. One is not better than the other, but each format has its own unique strengths and weaknesses.

As for Maurice's quote of Orson Welles, "The absence of limitations is the enemy of art," I would point out that fan productions are already replete with restrictions and limitations, such as limits on spare time, finances, experience, talent, manpower and so forth. Of all these restrictions, a restriction on how long the film can be is the single most artificial of them all. Limitations can indeed inspire artist to be more creative, but they can also lead to resignation and abandonment, especially when you have too many of them. Limitations do not create art. Artists do.

Fireproof78 pointed out that fan films need less time for world building and establishing setting because they are set in an existing franchise. While this argument has merit, the less you borrow from the franchise, the more time you have to spend setting up your setting, premise and characters. There's a reason why Aurora has a pilot that longer than most Star Trek episodes: it tries to expand the Star Trek universe by showing the lives of civilians piloting civilian starships. Because it deviates from the classic Trek formula, it has to spend more time on the premise, settings and characters. Limitations on time may encourage people to more heavily rely on the context and formula of the franchise instead of coming up with more efficient storytelling. Thus, the natural consequence of shorter films may be that, as a whole, they are more likely to be formulaic, not more creative.
 
I see a lot of comments similar to "Man that was good but to short or I wish there was more to the story". So I ask myself, if time limits are more of a hindrance to the fan film maker or to the enjoyment of the fan film viewer? Of course the better the production, the better the view count. So again I ask myself if a fan film production studio should be concerned with the view count? In a way, it's an affirmation of doing good storytelling and delivering it in an acceptable fashion. We do this for both our enjoyment and for the enjoyment of fans of Star Trek as well.
Do limits create creativity or simply sharpen your skills to go onto less limited projects?
A while ago I was asked to write Audio Drama which took me out of the video world. Honestly I didn't think I could do a credible job at writing without the action video to make it work. I did a pilot and two episodes, 1st episode made it's way to NPR Radio and the 2nd took last years Parsec award, I didn't know I could do that but doing it forced me to become a better writer.
One thing I do know is that as a writer I'm always striving to present a story that leaves the audience with something to take home with them which means drawing the audience in to become part of the story which tends to be a longer format.
When Life gives you Limits, make Limitade.
 
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If you've paid any attention to the debacle that Alec Peters and his fellow crew members have done since the lawsuit came down, you should be able to understand why many people would not watch or endorse Axanar in any way. I absolutely refuse to enable Alec's sense of entitlement and arrogance that drives him to con people out of their hard-earned money, or RMB's tendency to be an ass or do the odd bit of doxxing to people he doesn't like on twitter. This not about only wanting to watch stuff by "really nice guys," to imply otherwise is grossly simplifying the situation.
Exactly this.
 
For me, the deal breaker is that the film is not finished. I don't watch beta versions. I want to only watch the final release.
 
This one sounds mean but I'm gonna say it anyway: An overweight crew. Starfleet would have physical fitness requirements and there's no way some of these starship senior crews would qualify.
What you said is true but these are fan films. Of course I'm still in perfect shape after raising children, a 43 year career and all the other distractions life has to offer. Now that all the life issues are winding down, it's time to become involved in doing something I wished I could have done at twenty. Just knowing there are folks out there having a great time, enjoying what they are doing is enough for me to look past a lot of things.
 
What you said is true but these are fan films. Of course I'm still in perfect shape after raising children, a 43 year career and all the other distractions life has to offer. Now that all the life issues are winding down, it's time to become involved in doing something I wished I could have done at twenty. Just knowing there are folks out there having a great time, enjoying what they are doing is enough for me to look past a lot of things.
For me, I just assume the people of the future no longer give a shit whether someone's fat, thin, or anything else, no offense intended at @King Daniel Beyond's comment.
 
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