I don't think it's explicitly stated though it is implied. Also, that doesn't change the fact that watching the OT and then the PT feels like some details were forgotten by characters, at least for me.
Sell me on "The Clone Wars" series
- Thread starter Evil Twin
- Start date
Well, that was good timing... I finished the second story-reel arc, "The Bad Batch," this morning, and was able to pick up Dark Disciple from the library this afternoon, along with Ahsoka. The thing about reading Star Wars in prose is, I need to keep consulting Wookieepedia to figure out what the named species look like. Star Wars differs from Star Trek in that it doesn't seem to feel as much need to explicitly name alien species in onscreen dialogue -- which is actually nicely progressive and egalitarian, treating people just as people rather than defining them by race, but makes it harder to keep track of who's who in a prose tale.
I admit, my recent revisitation of the Star Wars films and series has given this lifelong Trekkie some insight into why people are so fond of the SW universe. It does a good job creating the impression of a rich, old, complex civilization, and of taking the species and tech and ideas we see onscreen and fleshing them out over time. TCW in particular did a lot of picking up on background races from the movies and fleshing out their homeworlds, cultures, etc. I wish Star Trek did that more, instead of each movie or series inventing whole new sets of aliens that we subsequently never see again.
I admit, my recent revisitation of the Star Wars films and series has given this lifelong Trekkie some insight into why people are so fond of the SW universe. It does a good job creating the impression of a rich, old, complex civilization, and of taking the species and tech and ideas we see onscreen and fleshing them out over time. TCW in particular did a lot of picking up on background races from the movies and fleshing out their homeworlds, cultures, etc. I wish Star Trek did that more, instead of each movie or series inventing whole new sets of aliens that we subsequently never see again.
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This plot point-Ok. I was speaking more broadly, but I see your point.
YMMV, clearly.
Obi-wan's line about Owen and Luke's father definitely implies that they had a more meaningful relationship than the brief and incidental encounter we saw in AOTC; you know, actually being brothers who knew each other and grew up together.
In hindsight it makes old Ben seem like he was just full of crap.
Kor
In hindsight it makes old Ben seem like he was just full of crap.
Kor
That or Owen had a lot of time to think about it and time to vent his thoughts as Kenobi in those nearly two decades. No telling how long Shmii was Owen's mother in law, nor how much he cared about her or the idea of his step-brother Anakin who was hero of the hour for the whole of the Clone Wars.
I don't see that. Obi-Wan was living on Tatooine for 19 years, keeping an eye on Luke, and Luke was obviously acquainted with him. "Old Ben" would've probably been around long enough to become known to the locals, the old hermit occasionally coming down to the local homesteads or into town to trade or stock up on supplies. There would've been plenty of time for him to observe Owen and learn about his attitudes.
Well, I just finished rewatching the Tartakovsky Clone Wars series. I was curious to see whether there was any way to reconcile it with the Filoni series, because it seemed like it bracketed the later show -- the first 21 episodes showed things that preceded TCW, like the introductions of Ventress and Grievous and Anakin's graduation from Padawan to Jedi Knight, while the last 4 episodes jumped forward to the end of the war and the abduction of Palpatine, leading right into ROTS.
But I can see how the former set of episodes is hard or impossible to reconcile with TCW in a bunch of ways. The main arc is about Republic troops recapturing Muunilinst, home of the Banking Clan, from the Separatists, while TCW shows the Banking Clan as nominally neutral and only later falling under Republic control through Palpatine's manipulation. Although the Banking Clan episodes there were set on Scipio instead, so maybe there's a workaround where the Clan declared neutrality after Muunilinst was liberated.
It also shows Asajj Ventress becoming Dooku's apprentice by winning a gladiatorial contest, whereas TCW/Dark Disciple canon says Dooku "found" her on Rattatak where she'd grown up -- but apparently the contest was on Rattatak, so maybe that's reconcilable. CW shows her seemingly falling to her death after a battle with Anakin, but of course villains often come back from that. But she only encounters Anakin, while TCW establishes that she and Obi-Wan have a prior history.
Then there's the Kit Fisto segment with the Quarren attacking the Mon Calamari, when TCW showed that the two species had been united until Riff Tamson sowed dissent. But the Quarren in the CW segment are said to be with the "Quarren Isolation League," so maybe it was a fringe group.
The Ilum episodes seem to have greater inconsistencies, though. They show the Jedi temple there almost being destroyed, while it's intact in the Jedi younglings arc on TCW. Also, it shows Luminara Unduli telling Barriss Offee that her training is complete, but she's still a Padawan in TCW; and it shows her assembling her lightsaber at the end of her training, while the younglings arc had that happening while they were years younger.
The final season seems to have fewer discrepancies, though, aside from small details. The main ones are that Anakin doesn't appear to get his ROTS-style bionic hand until just before the movie, and Grievous's cough is attributed to damage he sustains from Windu's Force attack as he's fleeing with the Chancellor, while in TCW he has the cough throughout the war. In broad strokes, though, it doesn't seem irreconcilable.
But I can see how the former set of episodes is hard or impossible to reconcile with TCW in a bunch of ways. The main arc is about Republic troops recapturing Muunilinst, home of the Banking Clan, from the Separatists, while TCW shows the Banking Clan as nominally neutral and only later falling under Republic control through Palpatine's manipulation. Although the Banking Clan episodes there were set on Scipio instead, so maybe there's a workaround where the Clan declared neutrality after Muunilinst was liberated.
It also shows Asajj Ventress becoming Dooku's apprentice by winning a gladiatorial contest, whereas TCW/Dark Disciple canon says Dooku "found" her on Rattatak where she'd grown up -- but apparently the contest was on Rattatak, so maybe that's reconcilable. CW shows her seemingly falling to her death after a battle with Anakin, but of course villains often come back from that. But she only encounters Anakin, while TCW establishes that she and Obi-Wan have a prior history.
Then there's the Kit Fisto segment with the Quarren attacking the Mon Calamari, when TCW showed that the two species had been united until Riff Tamson sowed dissent. But the Quarren in the CW segment are said to be with the "Quarren Isolation League," so maybe it was a fringe group.
The Ilum episodes seem to have greater inconsistencies, though. They show the Jedi temple there almost being destroyed, while it's intact in the Jedi younglings arc on TCW. Also, it shows Luminara Unduli telling Barriss Offee that her training is complete, but she's still a Padawan in TCW; and it shows her assembling her lightsaber at the end of her training, while the younglings arc had that happening while they were years younger.
The final season seems to have fewer discrepancies, though, aside from small details. The main ones are that Anakin doesn't appear to get his ROTS-style bionic hand until just before the movie, and Grievous's cough is attributed to damage he sustains from Windu's Force attack as he's fleeing with the Chancellor, while in TCW he has the cough throughout the war. In broad strokes, though, it doesn't seem irreconcilable.
Grievous's coughing was meant to be because of his cybernetics. So the 3D series is more accurate in that depiction.
Rogue One: Catalyst makes a reference to the Battle of Hypori, though there is no mention of General Grievous or the Jedi, just the crashed Acclamator.
I tend to think of certain specific scenes from the old Clone Wars shorts as having happened more of less as depicted (Anakin's knighting ceremony, swapping droids with Padme, Ventress's intro etc.) rather than the larger narrative. I used to think they you could indeed slot TCW pretty much into the second season's opening montage, but the Siege of Mandalore pretty much put paid to that idea, but if I'm honest I'd *much* rather have the Siege of Mandalore story, so no huge loss.
The minor inconsistencies never bothered me as much as I chalked most of it up to Tartakovsky's amped-up hyper-real storytelling & art style.
I do wonder if TCW consciously avoided retreading the same territory, at least in the early days if only to keep a respectful distance. There's a mention at one point in TCW of Mace being embattled on Dantooine, which is a clear nod to the micro-series.
The minor inconsistencies never bothered me as much as I chalked most of it up to Tartakovsky's amped-up hyper-real storytelling & art style.
I do wonder if TCW consciously avoided retreading the same territory, at least in the early days if only to keep a respectful distance. There's a mention at one point in TCW of Mace being embattled on Dantooine, which is a clear nod to the micro-series.
Yeah, a lot of the details are iffy, both from a continuity standpoint and a plausibility standpoint -- not just stuff like Mace's Force-wielding being absurdly powerful, but stuff like droids and clones jousting on speeder bikes. Not to mention how different many of the character voices and accents were. But a lot of it might still work in broad strokes, and a lot of individual scenes could still work -- for instance, the scene of Dooku training Grievous in lightsaber combat foreshadows Grievous's line from ROTS, and if that training came as late in the war as shown, it would explain why Grievous only mentioned it during the final battle on Utapau instead of during his many earlier fights with Obi-Wan in TCW.
Oh -- I have the novel Ahsoka sitting on my read pile, but I haven't started it yet (though I plan to do so tonight or tomorrow). So I didn't know about the Siege. From what I see on Wookieepedia (skimming so as not to spoil too much from the novel), I take it that it leads directly into ROTS?
Anyway, I think you mean the third season's montage, since the whole Muunilinst/Ventress arc spans the first two seasons of ten 3-minute episodes each. The first season ended on the cliffhanger of Anakin chasing Ventress's fighter into hyperspace. (Which, by the way, seems to be a continuity error; in one of these threads, we were just discussing that there normally doesn't seem to be a way to pursue a ship directly through hyperspace, but here, both Anakin and the clones on the ground were somehow able to determine the fighter's jump coordinates before it left.)
The third season begins with the resolution of the Grievous cliffhanger from the end of season 2, with the Jedi finding Ki-Adi-Mundi and the badly injured Aayla and Shaak-Ti as the only survivors of Grievous's debut attack. It then moves into Anakin's graduation from Padawan to Knight. It's episode 2 of the season (22 in all) that opens with a time-jump montage to the latter days of the war. The 3D series would have to be within that montage -- though not before it, since there's a scene where Padme reacts to Anakin's newly obtained facial scar, and I think he had that feature throughout TCW.
I figured that was why they treated Ventress and Grievous as pre-established characters, instead of giving them new debut episodes.
Yeah the thing with a lot of these scenes is that they have the virtue of having actually happened in canon (if only by inference) and in lieu of an alternate depiction, these work perfectly fine.
By that I mean for example: we know Anakin had a knighting ceremony because: duh! And the fact that they pretty much mimicked that scene in Rebels lends credence to the notion that this is how it went down.
We also know Anakin & Padme switched droids because in AotC, Artoo belongs to Padme & Threepio was always Anakin's and yet in RotS they've apparently switched owners. That it's an exchange of gifts following their wedding and later his knighting just seems logical.
Ventress similarly had to have made her presence known at some point in the 4 months between AotC & TCW and going after Anakin seems about right.
The Siege itself isn't really featured in the Ahsoka novel, at least not in full and not as a direct narrative tie-in to RotS. All you get is a sort of prologue or little excerpt that is almost certainly lifted straight from the unproduced script. That it coincided with RotS is more inferred and described rather than depicted if that makes any sense. The bulk of the novel picks up a full year later. I suspect they're saving the meat of that particular story for later, maybe as an animated movie or something.
There is however this panel from last year's celebration in which Filloni explicitly describes exactly when and how it ties in with RotS. So far that's as close as we've gotten to a depiction.
Yeah, what I actually meant was "Volume 2" as that's how they were published on the DVDs. Plus honestly the first two seasons that make up Volume 1 were released so close together back when they came out (with a full year between them and the final season) that I tend to mentally lump them together as one anyway.
I've already started reading, and there is a reference in the first flashback to Anakin leaving Ahsoka to deal with Mandalore because he had to go rescue the Chancellor. So the siege overlapped or immediately preceded the beginning of the movie.
Yeah, pretty much. From what's said in that panel it looks like Order 66 kicked off almost right after the siege ended, so all this is going on throughout the first two thirds of RotS, from the rescue mission through to Anakin butting heads with the council and Kenobi's mission to Utapau.
I re-watched the movie just a few months back and noted that scene where Anakin shows up too late for Obi-Wan's briefing on the outer rim sieges. It occurred to me that briefing would have presumably included Ahsoka & Rex's progress report from Mandalore. I know it's a small thing, but it retroactively makes that scene about ten times more interesting IMO.
IIRC, there was novels or comics or something released between CW and TCW that that established she had survived that battle with Anakin anyway.
Well, the politics of these eps is boring but it does hint at Anakin's darker nature, especially when it comes to Padme.
Yeah, pretty much. From what's said in that panel it looks like Order 66 kicked off almost right after the siege ended, so all this is going on throughout the first two thirds of RotS, from the rescue mission through to Anakin butting heads with the council and Kenobi's mission to Utapau.
I re-watched the movie just a few months back and noted that scene where Anakin shows up too late for Obi-Wan's briefing on the outer rim sieges. It occurred to me that briefing would have presumably included Ahsoka & Rex's progress report from Mandalore. I know it's a small thing, but it retroactively makes that scene about ten times more interesting IMO.
Wait. So, how would Ashoka be in charge at Mandalore? I mean, because of what happens at the end of S5?
He's dead, Jim. Just like Mace Windu (can't figure out why his death scene is somehow "ambiguous" for some people). I mean, seriously, I don't understand what has to happen to kill a SW character off and have them stay dead (looking at one character in particular from the PT who amazingly showed up in TCW and now in Rebels whom by all rights should be DEAD).
From what I understand, Ashoka does some things on her one for what would be part of season seven, than after seeing that there are still things she can do for the Republic, decide to help out even if she isn't part of the Jedi Order. The Republic I suppose decided that she was a known quantity and sent her with the force to liberate Mandalore from the Maul's criminals and his Death Watch loyalists, while others helped the Clones. It seems like it was going to be a mission for Skywalker and Kenobi, but the Separatists attacked Coruscant and captured Palpatine, forcing a recall of the two famous Jedi. Anakin takes part of the 501st with him and the fleet, but leave Rex and another part of it under Ashoka's command (presumably with most of them sporting newly repainted armor that in in her colors...a last gift from her master). This of course gets Anakin away from Maul.....I don't think they ever really met outside of TPM. Kenobi get to fight all the cool people. Basically Ashoka leading the army against Maul, but at the climax, or maybe slightly afterwards, Order 66 comes down. Bad things happen, Rex and Ashoka part ways and escape from the emerging Empire. Things are then continue in the Ashoka novel, as I figure the events of the Siege of Mandalore was to be the end of the Clone Wars series. The last arc taking place in the days following the end of the Clone Wars. The last shot probably would have timed to be roughly when Obi-wan delivers Luke to Owen and Beru at the end of Revenge of the Sith.
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