Star Wars Rebels Season Three (spoilers)

[Christopher]

I think the real giveaway that they were up to no good was when they fled from and fired back at the Devastator.

Well, they did go into hyperspace. I've seen a number of scenes in SW movies and episodes -- including Empire and the latest Rebels episode we've just been discussing -- where going into hyperspace was treated as successfully escaping from a pursuer. So I assume that ships in hyperspace can't be directly tracked or chased, which means Vader would've had to locate the Tantive IV some other way. So Leia could've claimed that the ship Vader spotted leaving Scarif was a different ship of the same make, and that it was a case of mistaken identity.

 

[Ithekro]

Going by the Radio drama of the events, that is basically what they thought on the Tantive IV. Hyperspace equals escape. The trouble was that Darth Vader's ship came out of hyperspace almost on top of them at Tatooine. Unnaturally close. Not only potentially tracking their potential destination, but also how close they should be to the planet by the time the Devastator would arrive. One can assume this is more or less what happened.

Either their is a spy or tracking device on Leia's ship, or Darth Vader is exceptionally good at tracking ships through hyperspace, because it seems to be possible using their last know heading. I imagine this doesn't work as well with the Millennium Falcon due to her being exceptionally fast. But the Tantive IV is no faster than the Devastator. So all it take for Vader to catch up would be to come out of Hyperspace closer to the planet than normal. And while I doubt he's flying himself, Vader has been known to be able to bring a ship out of hyperspace almost directly onto his target.

 

[Christopher]

Either their is a spy or tracking device on Leia's ship, or Darth Vader is exceptionally good at tracking ships through hyperspace, because it seems to be possible using their last know heading. I imagine this doesn't work as well with the Millennium Falcon due to her being exceptionally fast. But the Tantive IV is no faster than the Devastator. So all it take for Vader to catch up would be to come out of Hyperspace closer to the planet than normal. And while I doubt he's flying himself, Vader has been known to be able to bring a ship out of hyperspace almost directly onto his target.

Well, Vader was Anakin, and Anakin was a preternaturally gifted pilot. Still, it seems to be a general rule of the SW-verse that people don't expect ships to be easily tracked through hyperspace, so it's understandable why Leia might've thought a mistaken-identity defense could work.

Still, it might've been preferable if Admiral Raddus had just transmitted the plans to the Tantive in another system and Vader had tracked the transmission. That would've been a more exact fit to the dialogue and situation at the start of the original film. But I guess they decided the climax of Rogue One needed to be a bit more action-packed, and for Vader to have a chance to really establish himself as a relentless villain. I wonder if that's something they changed in the reshoots.

 

[Reverend]

Going by the Radio drama of the events, that is basically what they thought on the Tantive IV. Hyperspace equals escape. The trouble was that Darth Vader's ship came out of hyperspace almost on top of them at Tatooine. Unnaturally close. Not only potentially tracking their potential destination, but also how close they should be to the planet by the time the Devastator would arrive. One can assume this is more or less what happened.

Either their is a spy or tracking device on Leia's ship, or Darth Vader is exceptionally good at tracking ships through hyperspace, because it seems to be possible using their last know heading. I imagine this doesn't work as well with the Millennium Falcon due to her being exceptionally fast. But the Tantive IV is no faster than the Devastator. So all it take for Vader to catch up would be to come out of Hyperspace closer to the planet than normal. And while I doubt he's flying himself, Vader has been known to be able to bring a ship out of hyperspace almost directly onto his target.

It's almost as if Vader is somehow connected to some kind of omnipresent energy field or something.

Seriously though, that really is the most likely explanation as we even see him do it in tESB. He took one look at that probe droid's telemetry and *knew* it was where Luke was.
In hindsight, one might even postulate that it's Leia's very presence that gave them away (possibly even amplified by her proximity to Luke), even if Vader didn't know why exactly.

What I'm picturing is Vader getting back aboard the Devastator over Scarif, ordering the navigator to show him all of that ship's possible destinations along that last know trajectory, seeing Tatooine come up on the list and just knowing that's the one.

 

[Ithekro]

I wonder what he thought seeming that planet come up again. "Well, I thought this day couldn't get any worse...but it has to be that planet....sand....." then order then to set course for Tatooine.

Though, his week kind of got good for a bit there. Ending Obi-wan, finding the Rebel's hidden base. Almost blowing it up. Finding another very strong force sensitive pilot. It was almost a great day.

 

[Christopher]

Seriously though, that really is the most likely explanation as we even see him do it in tESB. He took one look at that probe droid's telemetry and *knew* it was where Luke was.
In hindsight, one might even postulate that it's Leia's very presence that gave them away (possibly even amplified by her proximity to Luke), even if Vader didn't know why exactly.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, that makes sense. And we know Force visions don't require a close relationship. Yoda was able to pick up on the danger to Luke's friends at Bespin even though he'd never met them.

 

[Reverend]

I wonder what he thought seeming that planet come up again. "Well, I thought this day couldn't get any worse...but it has to be that planet....sand....." then order then to set course for Tatooine.

Though, his week kind of got good for a bit there. Ending Obi-wan, finding the Rebel's hidden base. Almost blowing it up. Finding another very strong force sensitive pilot. It was almost a great day.

And then he got blindsided by a souped up space truck, got stranded in the boonies and had to call his boss for a lift home...what a week. And it started so well with that sick "don't choke on your aspirations" burn!

Oh, that's right. Yeah, that makes sense. And we know Force visions don't require a close relationship. Yoda was able to pick up on the danger to Luke's friends at Bespin even though he'd never met them.

It certainly seems to help, but yeah I don't think a personal connection is necessary. I find it hard to articulate exactly how I visualise how this works. It's somewhere between a spider's web where the strands are the observer's potential future paths, a still pool of water where the confluence of ripples creates an interference pattern and a mirror that reflects what is within, rather than what's on the surface.

I tend to see these deeper insights as part of the same mechanism that gifts a Jedi supernatural reflexes. The notion that the force both controls one's actions and obeys one's commands. It's like directing the course of a river by surrendering to the current.

So when Vader looks for insight, he's basically doing what Luke did in the trench run. Letting go and stretching out to feel the pull of the current. Indeed, the novelisation to Rogue One has it that he was on his way the the Profundity's bridge when a "pull" from the force led him to instead divert to the hanger.

 

[Christopher]

And then he got blindsided by a souped up space truck

Never occurred to me to think of the Falcon that way.

, got stranded in the boonies and had to call his boss for a lift home...what a week.

And then he had to explain to the Emperor how he managed to fail to shoot down the one X-Wing that somehow succeeded in blowing up the battle station that Palpatine had devoted more than 20 years of effort to getting built. That can't have gone well for him.

It certainly seems to help, but yeah I don't think a personal connection is necessary. I find it hard to articulate exactly how I visualise how this works. It's somewhere between a spider's web where the strands are the observer's potential future paths, a still pool of water where the confluence of ripples creates an interference pattern and a mirror that reflects what is within, rather than what's on the surface.

I tend to see these deeper insights as part of the same mechanism that gifts a Jedi supernatural reflexes. The notion that the force both controls one's actions and obeys one's commands. It's like directing the course of a river by surrendering to the current.

Interesting. "Do or do not, there is no try." In other words, you don't force it to happen, you relax and let it happen through you.

 

[Reverend]

And then he had to explain to the Emperor how he managed to fail to shoot down the one X-Wing that somehow succeeded in blowing up the battle station that Palpatine had devoted more than 20 years of effort to getting built. That can't have gone well for him.

Gee, I wonder how that phone call went down.

 

[Tuskin38]

So I assume that ships in hyperspace can't be directly tracked or chased

Well they did put a homing device on the Falcon for that reason, probably.

 

[Tallguy]

Never occurred to me to think of the Falcon that way.

Clearly you never played Sundog.

Yes, the radio play is Rogue One's slower, smarter (but less thrilling) cousin. The only problem with "spies on the Tantive IV" idea now is that they've BEEN to Yavin.

In the Star Wars novel Han states you can't track anyone in hyperspace.

Vader being Luke's Dad ruins a lot of Star Wars. Luke and Leia being brother and sister cuts off it's arms and legs and leaves it in a pool of lava. Anakin growing up on Tatooine takes the struggling remains and kneels on it's windpipe. Darth being a title scatters the ashes.

The Devastator makes orbit around Tatooine and Vader says "Hey! EVERYTHING is here! My son. My daughter. Hey! is that Obi-Wan?!? AND the plans! THREEPIO?!? It's CHRISTMAS!"

As sick to death as I am of that sand ball, I'll be very interested how they pull off their visit to Tatooine. Especially since the series isn't ending anytime soon. I can't imagine that they could include Han or Chewie and NOT put it in a trailer someplace. Maybe they spilled Ben and Mon Mothma so they could hold onto Luke?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Never occurred to me to think of the Falcon that way.

Mel Brooks did.

 

[137th Gebirg]

... Sundog.

LOVED that game back in the day! There is actually a group porting it to PC, called the Sundog Resurrection Project. They've apparently gone into beta last year with it after many years of development. Looks like quite a faithful adaptation. And not just using the old graphics 16-bit graphics, but updating it for higher-resolution machines.

 

[fireproof78]

Still, it might've been preferable if Admiral Raddus had just transmitted the plans to the Tantive in another system and Vader had tracked the transmission. That would've been a more exact fit to the dialogue and situation at the start of the original film. But I guess they decided the climax of Rogue One needed to be a bit more action-packed, and for Vader to have a chance to really establish himself as a relentless villain. I wonder if that's something they changed in the reshoots.

I would have preferred this as well, instead of the Tantive being with the Rebel fleet. It could have worked just as well to have Vader slaughtering Rebel troops who are trying to "beam" the information away before the ship is taken.

Gee, I wonder how that phone call went down.

"It's an older meme, sir, but it checks out."

Yes, the radio play is Rogue One's slower, smarter (but less thrilling) cousin. The only problem with "spies on the Tantive IV" idea now is that they've BEEN to Yavin.

In the Star Wars novel Han states you can't track anyone in hyperspace.

Vader being Luke's Dad ruins a lot of Star Wars. Luke and Leia being brother and sister cuts off it's arms and legs and leaves it in a pool of lava. Anakin growing up on Tatooine takes the struggling remains and kneels on it's windpipe. Darth being a title scatters the ashes.

The Devastator makes orbit around Tatooine and Vader says "Hey! EVERYTHING is here! My son. My daughter. Hey! is that Obi-Wan?!? AND the plans! THREEPIO?!? It's CHRISTMAS!"

As sick to death as I am of that sand ball, I'll be very interested how they pull off their visit to Tatooine. Especially since the series isn't ending anytime soon. I can't imagine that they could include Han or Chewie and NOT put it in a trailer someplace. Maybe they spilled Ben and Mon Mothma so they could hold onto Luke?

"Why does everyone want to back to Tatooine?"

And now I really want a Star Wars Christmas Special (note: not Holiday Special) in which the Skywalkers are just a dysfunctional family and Leia brought Vader to Tatooine to try and smooth over bad feelings between Vader, Owen and Obi-Wan.

Worst family reunion ever.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I always wondered why such a back-water planet in the ass-end of the galaxy seemed to be the focus of so much activity. You just happened to have the Tantive IV get caught there by a native member of that planet's population. You had two Skywalkers living there, arguably the biggest interstellar game-changers for generations. You had the headquarters of the far-reaching Hutt syndicate there, as well as the Pod Racing championship, featuring competitors from all over the galaxy. For such an insignificant little sandy speck, it appears to be a primary nexus of intrigue that rivals that of Coruscant.

 

[Reverend]

The Tantive IV getting caught over Tatooine was never meant to be a coincidence, it was there very specifically to pick-up Obi-Wan. Neither was the idea that Anakin had family there or that Vader had a connection even before they were both the same person. Remember, Vader was always said to be a former pupil of Kenobi.

These aren't coincidences, they're simple cause and effect.

 

[Ithekro]

Vader doesn't piece it together because honestly, he's done with that planet. He really doesn't want to think about it. The next time he's forced to stop by (to talk to the Hutt on the Emperor's behalf) he decided to go slaughter some Sand People to blow off steam.

 

[Tallguy]

I was wondering the other day if Ben was originally (1977) meant to be from Tatooine?

I suppose Unnamed Father Skywalker was since he, you know, had a brother that lived there. (And Tatooine doesn't seem to be the kind of place you move TOO.)

Oh, and having watched way too many YouTube videos on Rebels and Rogue One this weekend: It's pronounced TAN-ta-vee Four! Not "Tan-tiv".

 

[Christopher]

You had the headquarters of the far-reaching Hutt syndicate there

I think The Clone Wars showed that the heart of the Hutt syndicate was on Nal Hutta. Jabba was just one member who chose to use an abandoned monastery on Tatooine as his base, much as Ziro operated out of the Coruscant underworld and other Hutts were based elsewhere.

as well as the Pod Racing championship, featuring competitors from all over the galaxy.

The Boonta Eve Classic was held on Tatooine because Jabba was the one who ran it. So it's not a coincidence. And podracing doesn't really strike me like a major sport; it's so insanely dangerous that I question if it's even legal in the more civilized parts of the galaxy. It is run by a crime lord, after all.

The Tantive IV getting caught over Tatooine was never meant to be a coincidence, it was there very specifically to pick-up Obi-Wan. Neither was the idea that Anakin had family there or that Vader had a connection even before they were both the same person. Remember, Vader was always said to be a former pupil of Kenobi.

These aren't coincidences, they're simple cause and effect.

Yup. Let's see if I've got this... Anakin came from Tatooine and had family there, so Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Bail chose to leave Luke in the care of said family. Obi-Wan stayed to watch over Luke. Bail knew he was there, so when the Alliance learned of the Death Star, he tasked Leia with going to Tatooine to make contact. The Tantive IV got diverted to Scarif for the battle and ended up in possession of the plans, and Leia proceeded to try to deliver them to Obi-Wan. Vader tracked her down and intercepted her just before she could complete her mission.

And Shmi and Anakin only ended up on Tatooine in the first place because their original owner, Gardulla the Hutt, lost them in a bet to Watto. Since Watto was an inveterate gambler, I'd imagine he moved to Tatooine because of the podraces held there.

So ultimately, the reason all these things (not to mention Han and Chewie) converged on Tatooine is because it's where Jabba was based. Influential fellow.

 

[Reverend]

And Shmi and Anakin only ended up on Tatooine in the first place because their original owner, Gardulla the Hutt, lost them in a bet to Watto. Since Watto was an inveterate gambler, I'd imagine he moved to Tatooine because of the podraces held there.

Not so sure about this last bit. I always assumed that Gardulla bought Shmi (and Anakin?) elsewhere and lost them to Watto while on Tatooine. Given that she was there with Jabba at the Boota Eve Classic suggests to me she comes and goes from Tatooine on a semi-regular basis. Possibly an ally or rival of Jabba's or another member of his particular clan.

So ultimately, the reason all these things (not to mention Han and Chewie) converged on Tatooine is because it's where Jabba was based. Influential fellow.

Well he is one of the heads of the Hutt Cartel. Influence are what such individuals are all about.

As for why choose Tatooine as his powerbase, I assume from Solo's involvement with him that at least part of his business is smuggling, which typically requires a reasonably busy port with either non-existent or easy to bribe authorities.
Given how busy Mos Eisley seemed, I would hazard a guess that the system is situated close to the main hyperlanes, but not *too* close, far enough away from the more civilised parts of the outer rim for ships to come and go mostly unobserved and not having any material wealth in and of itself to be worth anyone annexing.
It may also be advantageous to spend most of his time away from Nal Hutta to avoid the Grand High Council politics and perhaps even to enable him to skim or steal from his fellow Hutts without their noticing.