Sell me on "The Clone Wars" series

[Tuskin38]

In Legend of Korra, they designed female Metal benders for the final season, but they never got used.

I wonder if the same happened here, but those at the animation studio just forgot to use them.

 

[Evil Twin]

Ok, just finished season 5. A little bit... uneven compared to season 4. It got off to a good start with the premier and the Onderon arc (yay, I finally have Saw's backstory!) but then squandered 8 episodes with the youngling and droids arcs, although neither were as bad as they could've been. But then there was the Mandalorian trilogy which HOLY SHIT THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME. Just pure badassery start to finish. Easily my favorite batch of episodes now. Too bad it ended on a bit of an unresolved note re: Mandalore. The Ahsoka storyline that ended the season was... decent, but didn't excite me too much (and where the hell was Barris' master during all this?) but man, that was a pretty powerful ending. I suppose that provides the explanation as to why Ahsoka's nowhere to be seen during Revenge of the Sith? Anyway, on to the home stretch!

 

[Turtletrekker]

Yes I have and yes it is.
The long and short of it is that's it's an adaptation of the last two Ventress arcs penned by Katie Lucas that never got produced. Eight scripts total IIRC so it's almost half a season's worth of story focused entirely on Voss & Asajj, though the tone of it quite appropriately feels a little more grown up than the TV show, even by the standards of the later seasons. I won't say any more since there are some things in there you really don't want spoiled, but I'd say it's easily one of the better canon novels they've produced.

I may as well ask now, although it's getting a little ahead myself-- What about the Darth Maul comic? I assume it links his story from Clone Wars to Rebels? This one is also canon and based on un-produced scripts?

I know the Ahsoka novel is canon, but not based on CW scripts. How was that?

 

[Set Harth]

What about the Darth Maul comic? I assume it links his story from Clone Wars to Rebels?

I haven't read it, but the impression I get is that it doesn't do much in the way of linkage. There's still a big, unexplored gap in Maul's story between Son of Dathomir ( which is still before ROTS ) and his Rebels appearance.

 

[Reverend]

Ok, just finished season 5. A little bit... uneven compared to season 4. It got off to a good start with the premier and the Onderon arc (yay, I finally have Saw's backstory!) but then squandered 8 episodes with the youngling and droids arcs, although neither were as bad as they could've been.

Personally I can barely stand the droid arc, though mostly because I remember getting only one of these a week at a time and it felt like a whole month's worth of Star Wars squandered.

I rather enjoyed the youngling arc as it gave an unprecedented insight into aspects of Jedi lore and training that was always something of a mystery. If that's not enough then I think David Tennant as the Jedi artificer droid made it all worthwhile.

Side note: this was actually a back-door pilot of sorts as for a while there, Lucas considered doing a separate show focused on a group of Jedi younglings. I think this was around the time they noticed they were loosing their younger audience (or rather the younger audience was growing up and they were failing to attract new 5-8 year olds) and this was a possible solution.

But then there was the Mandalorian trilogy which HOLY SHIT THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME. Just pure badassery start to finish. Easily my favorite batch of episodes now.

Gotta love that Sith on Sith action. Shame about Pre Vizla though.

Too bad it ended on a bit of an unresolved note re: Mandalore.

See below.

The Ahsoka storyline that ended the season was... decent, but didn't excite me too much (and where the hell was Barris' master during all this?) but man, that was a pretty powerful ending. I suppose that provides the explanation as to why Ahsoka's nowhere to be seen during Revenge of the Sith? Anyway, on to the home stretch!

Try and appreciate that the way this ended had a much bigger impact back when we didn't know she'd show up again in Rebels.
That aside, thanks to a few subtle touches it's where you really start to see that the Republic is already the Empire in all but name (incidentally, by this point it's about a year out from RotS and less than 2 years since the show started.)

I may as well ask now, although it's getting a little ahead myself-- What about the Darth Maul comic? I assume it links his story from Clone Wars to Rebels? This one is also canon and based on produced scripts?

Not exactly. Yes it's based on unproduced scripts and concept art, yes it picks up Maul story right where it left off in TCW. No, it doesn't *fully* bridge the gap as Maul was set to reappear in a later arc. Speaking of which...

I know the Ahsoka novel is canon, but not based on CW scripts. How was that?

Actually, while you're right in that the main body of text is wholly original material, there are a few little flashbacks which appears to be lifted straight out of the unproduced 'Siege of Mandalore' scripts, one of which features a glimpse of her confrontation with Maul (hence "running away again Lady Tano?".)

As for the overall quality: I'd say it's pretty good. Don't expect a complete accounting of Ahsoka's activities between TCW & Rebels as it picks up about a year post ROTS and covers a period of about a few months, a year at the outside. I won't go into detail but it still manages to hit a number of important story beats and gives some fairly major lore dumps on the nature of lightsabers & kyber crystals. It also helps that Ashley Eckstein herself reads the audiobook.

 

[Evil Twin]

IMO, the worse it gets is a season 6 arc involving Padme and the Banking Clan. That story just feels like someone listened to all the complaints about the prequels being about galactic tax crises and governmental procedure and made something specifically to annoy them. It basically is three(?) episodes devoted to bank transactions, and is exactly as exciting as that sounds.

Jesus, you weren't kidding. I'm only one episode into it and this shit's awful.

Interestingly, I noticed Palpatine was being voiced by the late Ian Abercrombie here, and checking Wookiepedia, it looks like this arc was originally intended for early season 5 but got pushed back instead.

I was trying to place why Clovis sounded so familiar to me, then realized it was Robin Atkin Downes basically doing the exact same voice he did for the Thieves Guild's Brynjolf in Skyrim.

 

[Set Harth]

Interestingly, I noticed Palpatine was being voiced by the late Ian Abercrombie here, and checking Wookiepedia, it looks like this arc was originally intended for early season 5 but got pushed back instead.

That's why Satine is referred to as though she is still alive, which means that the chronological placement of these episodes really belongs in the season 5 timeframe.

 

[Ithekro]

The Clovis arc was originally shown in the 5th season trailer, but didn't show up until the 6th season. I don't watch that one more than once, so I don't remember if Anakin mention's Ahsoka during it. Actually I don't remember him having much of a reaction to that until the Lost Episodes/ uncompleted episodes.

 

[Reverend]

Actually I don't remember him having much of a reaction to that until the Lost Episodes/ uncompleted episodes.

It's directly discussed with Obi-Wan in the Utapau story reel, but that's about it. Short version: he feels she let HIM down, which pretty much tells you all you need to know about how his mind works. Which, to be fair so does the Clovis arc...sort of.

 

[Evil Twin]

Aaaaaaaand done with season 6. Rather a mixed bag, cancellation notwithstanding.

The premature triggering of Order 66 in a clone was an interesting idea for a storyline, but the outcome was kind of a foregone conclusion, y'know? Poor Fives. Reminded me a little of the DS9 episode "Whispers". I liked the clone bar in the fourth episode.

The Banking Clan arc was crap, as already mentioned.

Jar Jar Binks and the Temple of Doom was slightly less terrible than past Jar Jar episodes, but that's not saying much.

The Yoda arc was quite good, so at least the season wasn't a complete waste and that it ended on a high note. Finally some answers about Sifo-Dyas, who was basically just name-dropped in AOTC and that's it. So Moraband is basically just Korriban in all but name, huh? Was surprised to see Mark Hamill voiced Darth Bane. Going back to listen, I noticed a little bit of his Joker voice in there.

So pretty good series overall, though you often have to suffer through some standard kiddie fare to get to the good stuff. Is it better than Rebels? I haven't decided yet (and we'll have to wait and see where that series goes) though I am still biased towards the OT era. I find the PT era pretty fugly (especially ship and alien designs) overall.

My final season ranking from best to worst: 4, 5, 2, 3, 1, 6

Best episode overall: Season 5's "Eminence"

Worst episode overall: Season 1's "Bombad Jedi"

 

[Christopher]

My final season ranking from best to worst: 4, 5, 2, 3, 1, 6

That's encouraging, given that I'm close to the end of season 3 on my quick-before-Netflix-pulls-it binge. (Which means I'm past having to jump around to do a chronological rewatch, aside from the opening of the season 5 Darth Maul arc which was moved up to be the season premiere.)

 

[Reverend]

The Yoda arc was quite good, so at least the season wasn't a complete waste and that it ended on a high note. Finally some answers about Sifo-Dyas, who was basically just name-dropped in AOTC and that's it.

Honestly, even after all that I'm still fuzzy on exactly who did what when!

So Moraband is basically just Korriban in all but name, huh?

Yeah, apparently Lucas didn't like the way "Korriban" sounded so he changed it to "Moraband". I've also read somewhere that part of it was also that it sounded too close to "Coruscant", but I'm not sure if that's actually a thing or just something fans have made up. Personally I'm fine with it. If one is that attached to the EU name then you can always go with the notion that "Korriban" is the archaic version of the name and "Moraband" is just the modern way of pronouncing it.

For what it's worth the place Yoda lands is pretty much exactly The Valley of the Dark Lords and the Great Temple as depicted is both KotOR and SWTOR.

Was surprised to see Mark Hamill voiced Darth Bane. Going back to listen, I noticed a little bit of his Joker voice in there.

If you listen close he's actually doing two voices that they're layering on top of one another. The more arc, Joker like one is the easiest to recognise, but there's a deep rumbling bit of Solomon Grundy in there too.

Personally I'm revealed they went with a more Vader inspired armor design than the one from the EU. That one always struck me as pretty fugly and this way it's a nice way to imply there's a little more history behind Vader's mask than we thought. That said, one of the statues does appear to look somewhat like the EU version, so there's that.

So pretty good series overall, though you often have to suffer through some standard kiddie fare to get to the good stuff. Is it better than Rebels? I haven't decided yet (and we'll have to wait and see where that series goes) though I am still biased towards the OT era. I find the PT era pretty fugly (especially ship and alien designs) overall.

Now may be a good time to go back and rewatch some of Rebels as you may get a few references that escaped you the first time. The first and last thing Rex & Ahsoka say to each other, a certain portrait in Maul's lair and everything about 'The Last Battle' leap to mind. Also, keep an ear out for some familiar music ques.

 

[Set Harth]

the outcome was kind of a foregone conclusion, y'know?

The outcome of the whole series was kind of a foregone conclusion.

Yeah, apparently Lucas didn't like the way "Korriban" sounded so he changed it to "Moraband". I've also read somewhere that part of it was also that it sounded too close to "Coruscant", but I'm not sure if that's actually a thing or just something fans have made up.

It's a thing. Lucas is a butt-head. ( As if we didn't already know that due to OT alterations. )

 

[Evil Twin]

Now may be a good time to go back and rewatch some of Rebels as you may get a few references that escaped you the first time. The first and last thing Rex & Ahsoka say to each other, a certain portrait in Maul's lair and everything about 'The Last Battle' leap to mind. Also, keep an ear out for some familiar music ques.

Yeah, I actually was planning on revisiting some of the Rebels episodes that tie in with Clone Wars over the weekend.

I rewatched Revenge of the Sith last night, wondering if watching it post-Clone Wars would improve things...

Nope, it's still terrible.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, I actually was planning on revisiting some of the Rebels episodes that tie in with Clone Wars over the weekend.

I rewatched Revenge of the Sith last night, wondering if watching it post-Clone Wars would improve things...

Nope, it's still terrible.

I don't know, I think it somewhat improves the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship knowing much of what they've gone through in the last 3 years.

Plus Anakin's distrust towards the council and his reaction to not being made a Master now make a bit more sense in the context of what happened to Ahsoka.
I don't know that it's technically canon (I know the book isn't, I mean this particular point), but the 'Path of the Jedi' book that came out right around the time TCW states that the way a Jedi gets promoted from Knight to Master is typically on training a Padawan to Knighthood. Which makes much more sense to me than the fairly arbitrary way it happened in the old EU as the final trial of a Jedi passing on their knowledge just feels right. It also ties in nicely to Yoda's final instruction to Luke before he died.

So yeah, Anakin was right there in the room when Windu and Yoda basically offered Ahsoka a Knighthood on her return, so in his mind he did his job: he trained a Knight, it's not his fault she let him down and chose to walk away.
Plus the whole situation came about through the council's unwillingness to trust their own and in RotS we see history beginning to repeat itself. The council doesn't trust Anakin, doesn't trust Palaptine and are betraying the principles they're supposed to be upholding by having him sneak around spying on someone he trusts and respects, and they're using Obi-Wan to guilt him into it.

I also find it fun knowing that while the opening battle over Coruscant is going on, Rex, Ahsoka & Bo Katan are busy fighting Maul on Mandalore...which is somewhat undercut by the thought: "I'd rather be watching *that* movie!"

 

[Tuskin38]

you can always go with the notion that "Korriban" is the archaic version of the name and "Moraband" is just the modern way of pronouncing it.

The BTS page on the official website hints at that, the caption for one of the images of Moraband says:

'A world so ancient could have been known by different names in different ages'

http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/sacrifice-trivia-gallery
First image.

but I'm not sure if that's actually a thing or just something fans have made up

That is true. I don't recall the exact source. I think it was in an interview with Dave Filoni?

I've asked on Wookieepedia's talk page for Moraband to see if anyone knows.

For what it's worth the place Yoda lands is pretty much exactly The Valley of the Dark Lords and the Great Temple as depicted is both KotOR and SWTOR.

Indeed, I can't find any decent shots of the Valley from KOTOR.

When I first played SWTOR it had been years since I played KOTOR, so I didn't even recognize the place. The 'walls' give it away when comparing the two.

 

[Christopher]

Finally up to season 5 on my rewatch, with only a few days left before Netflix pulls the show. This really was Ahsoka's season, wasn't it? She was the central regular character in three of the five arcs. It's been pretty fascinating to see how much she's grown over the course of the series.

 

[Commander Richard]

I could never get into The Clone Wars. Too boring and political.

Then I saw this thread, and being on a bit of a Star Wars kick as well, though not as much as @Evil Twin, I figured I'd have another look. Then the March 7th deadline (which I only discovered two weeks ago) hastened that plan.

So, now I've seen the full run of The Clone Wars. Uncropped.

About a third of it was boring and political just as I remember but when it was good, it was really good. Better than the movies. The episodic format really allows the characters to be fleshed out and I found myself caring about the ensemble in ways I never did before. Well done. And the animation... Hands down the best I've ever seen. Looked like an enormous underating, being so close to looking like live-action.

After reading up on the show post-watch, I discovered that it was basically cancelled. What a shame. I wanted more and there were threads that were left hanging, like what plans did Sidious have for Maul? On the positive side, at least Disney left things open so that we can explore them down the line.

A few shout-outs...

• Loved Ahsoka. Great character. Years ago when the show started, I feared that she'd die during the course of the show or once Order 66 was executued but I'm glad to hear that she survived. I don't blame her for leaving either. By the way, why do older togrutas have creases in their head tails?
• Matt Lanter was a fantastic Akakin, supported by good writing. Wish they had him for the movies. Hard to believe that this Anakin turns so quickly and easily to the dark side though.
• Sidious was in top form. I was so impressed that I had to rewind and watch is again...

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As far as the droid arc is concerned, I really like the design of the Void.

I did too. It reminded me of that "billiard ball planet" concept that they wanted to use on Enterprise. A planet that's completely flat and smooth. And the yellow sky remined me of the TOS planet sets they used to use.

The character designers chose to populate Mandalore exclusively with extremely pale-skinned, Nordic-looking types, and not a single person who looked anything like Jango Fett or any other ethnic type.

I noticed that too. What made me notice though was that Deathwatch came off like neo-nazis.

Now onto Star Wars Rebels and an older Ahsoka batting Vader. Yeah, I had to peek.

 

[Tuskin38]

Matt Lanter was a fantastic Akakin, supported by good writing. Wish they had him for the movies.

Well the problem was the writing and direction, not the actor. Hayden Christensen is fine actor.

 

[Christopher]

Matt Lanter was a fantastic Akakin, supported by good writing. Wish they had him for the movies. Hard to believe that this Anakin turns so quickly and easily to the dark side though.

Actually I thought the later seasons of the series did a much better job foreshadowing Anakin's fall to darkness than the movies did. Especially in something like the Rush Clovis arc, where we saw Anakin's jealousy erupting into violent rage. He really got darker over the course of the show.


Well, I finished the series this morning, just in time. I still have the story reels to rewatch, though, and I've requested the Dark Disciple novel adapting the planned Ventress episodes from the library, though the comic adapting the leftover Darth Maul arc is proving harder to find. The Yoda 4-parter at the end of season 6 does make an excellent series finale, though.


By the way, I'm curious about something. In the first episode of the arc about Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka dealing with the catlike slave-trader species, there's a scene where Obi-Wan gets a message from one of the slavers on the hologram generator he's holding, and Anakin furiously uses the Force to yank the hologram out of Obi-Wan's hand and crush it in his own. That implies that holographic images are made of some sort of physical subtance, rather than just light. This is also suggested by the crude Umbaran hologram technology in the General Krell arc, where the images are made up of distinct cubes of blue light that assemble into the projected shapes. Has it ever been explained what the technical principle behind holograms is? Wookieepedia has nothing to say about it, at least not in the Canon section.