A Lit-verse based TOS chronology

[Nyotarules]

Chapter One of My Brother's Keeper: Enterprise nails the timing down to between 2257 and 2265 (when Kirk and McCoy were serving aboard the Constitution together and before his assignment to the Enterprise post-WNMHGB).

My Brother's Keeper: Constitution narrows it down further to the early 2260s and has McCoy requesting reassignment to Starfleet Medical on Earth when his father became ill, partly to be near his father and partly so he would have the best care. There's no mention of duration, but shortly after his father's death, McCoy accepted the short assignment on Capella IV, his return from which leads to his assignment to the Enterprise. Taking all this into account, a 2264 date is a reasonable assumption, although personally I would go early 2265.

Does My Brother's Keeper suggest father and son had an unhappy relationship as told in Crucible: Provenance of shadows novel?

 

[bok2384]

Does My Brother's Keeper suggest father and son had an unhappy relationship as told in Crucible: Provenance of shadows novel?

It doesn't go that in-depth I'm afraid. The facts from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier were reiterated and used to explain why McCoy was assigned to Starfleet Medical in 2265. Reading further into it, a date of 2265 seems to be confirmed as McCoy said he was 38 years old at the time of his father's death (having been born in 2227).

 

[Idran]

It doesn't go that in-depth I'm afraid. The facts from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier were reiterated and used to explain why McCoy was assigned to Starfleet Medical in 2265. Reading further into it, a date of 2265 seems to be confirmed as McCoy said he was 38 years old at the time of his father's death (having been born in 2227).

2265 or 2266, mind. He would've been 38 for at least part of 2266.

 

[bok2384]

2265 or 2266, mind. He would've been 38 for at least part of 2266.

Good point, however the fact that his father's death occurred before WNMHGB allowing for the mission to Capella IV (at least according to My Brother's Keeper) would support a 2265 placement.

 

[Idran]

Good point, however the fact that his father's death occurred before WNMHGB allowing for the mission to Capella IV (at least according to My Brother's Keeper) would support a 2265 placement.

Ah right, also a good point.

 

[Jbarney]

If I remember that book correctly, I think it suggested that McCoy's birthday was in January.

 

[JD]

Chapter One of My Brother's Keeper: Enterprise nails the timing down to between 2257 and 2265 (when Kirk and McCoy were serving aboard the Constitution together and before his assignment to the Enterprise post-WNMHGB).

My Brother's Keeper: Constitution narrows it down further to the early 2260s and has McCoy requesting reassignment to Starfleet Medical on Earth when his father became ill, partly to be near his father and partly so he would have the best care. There's no mention of duration, but shortly after his father's death, McCoy accepted the short assignment on Capella IV, his return from which leads to his assignment to the Enterprise. Taking all this into account, a 2264 date is a reasonable assumption, although personally I would go early 2265.

Wasn't there a story somewhere that said McCoy was actually already assigned to the Enterprise before WNMHGB, and that he was just off ship temporarily for that episode? I haven't the story that said that, I just remember somebody mentioning it on here and possibly seeing it on Memory Beta.

 

[Stevil2001]

Wasn't there a story somewhere that said McCoy was actually already assigned to the Enterprise before WNMHGB, and that he was just off ship temporarily for that episode? I haven't the story that said that, I just remember somebody mentioning it on here and possibly seeing it on Memory Beta.

Strangers from the Sky and Enterprise: The First Adventure both go with this.

 

[Jinn]

Wasn't there a story somewhere that said McCoy was actually already assigned to the Enterprise before WNMHGB, and that he was just off ship temporarily for that episode? I haven't the story that said that, I just remember somebody mentioning it on here and possibly seeing it on Memory Beta.

And in the German synchronization it was said that Piper was the stand-in for McCoy. That change was made to explain McCoy's absence as "Where No Man has Gone Before" was the seventh episode broadcasted in Germany.

 

[Christopher]

Wasn't there a story somewhere that said McCoy was actually already assigned to the Enterprise before WNMHGB, and that he was just off ship temporarily for that episode? I haven't the story that said that, I just remember somebody mentioning it on here and possibly seeing it on Memory Beta.

In addition to the ones Steve mentioned, DC's "All Those Years Ago..." annual also had McCoy on board from the beginning, with a mention that he'd soon need to take a leave of absence to attend Joanna's college graduation.

And in the German synchronization it was said that Piper was the stand-in for McCoy. That change was made to explain McCoy's absence as "Where No Man has Gone Before" was the seventh episode broadcasted in Germany.

It was the third episode broadcast in the US, but no attempt was made to explain the changes over here.

 

[Jinn]

It was the third episode broadcast in the US, but no attempt was made to explain the changes over here.

Then this must be one of the rare occasions where the synchronization did more good than bad. (Except the part where they forgot to mention Kelso in the casuality report at the end... And the numerous times in all of TOS where "silicon" (which means "Silizium" in German) was translated to "Silikon" which actually means "silicone"...)

 

[Christopher]

And the numerous times in all of TOS where "silicon" (which means "Silizium" in German) was translated to "Silikon" which actually means "silicone"...)

In the case of "The Devil in the Dark," that actually makes more sense. As discussed in Isaac Asimov's classic "Not as We Know It" article, "silicon-based" life would most likely be based on silicone compounds that are more stable at high temperatures. It also fits with the rubbery appearance of the Horta.

 

[Jinn]

In the case of "The Devil in the Dark," that actually makes more sense. As discussed in Isaac Asimov's classic "Not as We Know It" article, "silicon-based" life would most likely be based on silicone compounds that are more stable at high temperatures. It also fits with the rubbery appearance of the Horta.

I just checked on Netflix, in that instance they actually got it right and said "Silizium" and not "Silikon"

 

[Jbarney]

Just finished Grand Designs and am loving a lot of the small chronological layers that have flourished in treklit. While Dilmore and Ward's story doesn't have a lot chronological references to the rest of the timeline/series, it is peppered with internal SCE references which make 2376 such a "packed" year. There was a reference or two in Grand Designs to the ship's previous mission, Orphans. And before that Orphans linked nicely with Ring Around the Sky. And with Ring Around the Sky, the references to the past Fury threat were great.

I've got a lot of catching up to do, but with this level of layering between stories, I'm really going to enjoy it. David Mack's Fail Safe is next.

 

[Idran]

Just finished Grand Designs and am loving a lot of the small chronological layers that have flourished in treklit. While Dilmore and Ward's story doesn't have a lot chronological references to the rest of the timeline/series, it is peppered with internal SCE references which make 2376 such a "packed" year. There was a reference or two in Grand Designs to the ship's previous mission, Orphans. And before that Orphans linked nicely with Ring Around the Sky. And with Ring Around the Sky, the references to the past Fury threat were great.

It is great, but it also makes it a mess to try and actually fit it into a 2376 timeline.

In my own timeline, I basically have had to just outright ignore the date changes in the print editions and just go back to the original e-book dating just to have enough room to fit all the events and the mentioned time gaps between them. It's meant pushing Wounds down into early 2377 instead of having it in the later part of the Worlds of DS9 series as seems to have been the intention, but thankfully I don't think any of the later DS9 relaunch stuff references Wounds? I couldn't remember any references, at least. But there literally just isn't enough time to get everything up to and around Wounds to all fit in 2376. (As is I've also had to trim some of the extremely long works like Grand Designs to get it to all fit together.)

 

[Jbarney]

It is great, but it also makes it a mess to try and actually fit it into a 2376 timeline.

In my own timeline, I basically have had to just outright ignore the date changes in the print editions and just go back to the original e-book dating just to have enough room to fit all the events and the mentioned time gaps between them. It's meant pushing Wounds down into early 2377 instead of having it in the later part of the Worlds of DS9 series as seems to have been the intention, but thankfully I don't think any of the later DS9 relaunch stuff references Wounds? I couldn't remember any references, at least. But there literally just isn't enough time to get everything up to and around Wounds to all fit in 2376. (As is I've also had to trim some of the extremely long works like Grand Designs to get it to all fit together.)

I am not to Wounds yet, but will share my notes, when I get there. Trimming Grand Designs shouldn't be that hard to do. I am not familiar with changes made between e format and print, but (without my notes in front of me) the three weeks referenced between the "now" section of the book and the chapters set earlier, don't have to be 21 full days. It can easily be rounded down a few days. Also, I think there was a reference to the annoying Ambassador/ship having had contact with/in the system for weeks. In my mind, I can easily rationalize this to mean de Vinci was working on the Rhaaxan situation in transit after finishing up events from Orphans.

It is not like we are talking about late 2269 or 2270...

Peace

 

[Idran]

Trimming Grand Designs shouldn't be that hard to do. I am not familiar with changes made between e format and print, but (without my notes in front of me) the three weeks referenced between the "now" section of the book and the chapters set earlier, don't have to be 21 full days. It can easily be rounded down a few days.

Yeah, that's part of what I did; but the main issue was this:

Also, I think there was a reference to the annoying Ambassador/ship having had contact with/in the system for weeks. In my mind, I can easily rationalize this to mean de Vinci was working on the Rhaaxan situation in transit after finishing up events from Orphans.

The problem is that there isn't room for that much time between Orphans and Grand Designs (nearly a month by the text). I can squeeze a week or so, but we've got some pretty tight time constraints: the start of The Art of the Deal is exactly 5 months after Wildfire (though that specific reference was admittedly dropped from the print version, even if it was for the sake of compressing rather than expanding) and Security was less than six months after Tev joined the crew (not sure if this reference was removed in the print collection, I don't have a hard-copy of that one).

So I basically have to ignore that background there and have the start of Grand Designs be after maybe 2 or 3 days at the planet at best.

 

[Jbarney]

Sounds like the print copy was edited to make things fit better. I'd go with those references. If it was edited and brought things "up to date", seems like those would be the ones to use.

 

[Jbarney]

So I just went back over my notes, just to let you know what the paper version of Grand Designs says....the main "backstory" wording that is probably causing you headaches is on page 258...."The diplomat had deluged her (Gomez) with various requests, demands, and whatnot for weeks now." I tried to read pretty carefully for notes on length of time between missions, and I could not find (in the book version) a reference to there being a full month between Grand Designs and Orphans. Understand, I never saw the ecopy, I am just sharing what I read in the paper version....

So based on this, I think the text implies, yes, that da Vinci was in the Rhaaxan system for that length of time....however, ahem....

I think the rationalization gods would be pretty fair on this one. Gomez is Chief Engineer of the ship, and she would have access to communication and statistics for future missions well in advance. At least for me, the rationalization works, especially if you are trying to crunch the time down a bit.

Peace,
JB

 

[Idran]

Sounds like the print copy was edited to make things fit better. I'd go with those references. If it was edited and brought things "up to date", seems like those would be the ones to use.

The print copies were edited to remove some time references, yes, but it's because the chronology was compressed, not extended. While some specific timespan references were removed, stardates were edited from early-2377 to late-2376 so that they could place Wounds within the Worlds of DS9 series at the end of 2376. Which is absolutely ridiculous pacing.

And as for the reference in Grand Designs, I'm not sure if it survived to the print version, but in the eBook version it's in Chapter 2, fourth paragraph down.

"We've been here nearly a month now, Captain," Marshal said, "And your people haven't found anything. I'm sure I don't have to remind you that the longer this process takes, the longer the approval of the Rhaaxans' application for Federation membership is delayed."

Also, minor irrelevant correction: Gomez isn't chief engineer, she's first officer and commander of the SCE detachment. Conlon's the chief engineer.